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  1. #21
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey79 View Post
    I think alot more people will soon start to invest in solar panels to reduce the electricity bills and also log burner fires to heat the house so as to save some more penny's plus what's happening with all these wind farms free energy just the build cost
    They've started clamping down on log fires, given the popularity, there's quite an effect on the carbon emissions and particulates (yellow/orange flame is a sign of incomplete combustion). Chimneys aren't great as you can't pull all the heat out of the flue gas otherwise it stalls the gas flow.

    The UK has targeted pure electricity, and we need to use our gas reserves to cover the gap during the transition from fossil fuels and nuclear/solar/wind/tidal/etc also in reducing our consumption.

    With the large pond being 58W I'm interested in that running solar for both electricity and warming the water during spring/autumn time to widen the season. Probably with a small solar pump to pull the water up and through the panels.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Eco Pond 2.0: 13,000 litres, 58W airlifts, 1300l anoxic, Solum 16. No pump.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai Point's Avatar
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    The real blame for the cost increase is the massive spike in wholesale gas prices and that is mainly due to Russia drastically, and deliberately, reducing the supply of gas to Europe. They are using it to blackmail the EU to agree to the new Nord Stream 2 gas pipe scheme which basically runs from Russia to Germany. Germany have just give them the middle finger by signing a big hydrogen gas deal with the Ukraine.

    We don't even ship in gas directly, the EU get it from Russia then after a mark-up, we buy it off them. The sooner we ditch gas altogether the better imho.

    I'm currently designing the mechanical services for housing schemes and have done some running cost analysis comparisons for various technologies.. gas fired, ASHP and fully electric being the main 3.

    The results are:

    Fully electric radiators/convector heaters.. forget it.. 2500+

    Gas fired heating and HWS generation..
    Running cost (based on 4p/kWh) - 850

    ASHP & ASHP generated HWS..
    Running cost (based on 17p/kWh & CoP of ASHP, which varies, of 3 average) - 991

    The CoP figure of 3 for the ASHP may be a bit high as typically they range between 1.7 and 4.5 depending on external temperature and the temperature of the water you want to heat to, but it shows that currently an ASHP costs more to run than a gas fired system.

    As from 2025 it is very unlikely that anyone will be allowed to install a gas fired heating system in a new build house, but it's expected that existing systems will be replaced with boilers fired by a mixture of gas and hydrogen. No-one knows how or where we're going to get the hydrogen yet, or even whether it will be blue, green or a mix of the two types.

    One thing is for sure though, gas prices are only going to keep rising. The Government zero carbon target means that we will have to get rid of gas and the cynic in me thinks that in order to do that they will "encourage" people to stop using it ie. make it too expensive to use.

    For anyone interested, the final housing development services will be ASHP/ASHP generated HWS/MVHR ventilation and PV panels.

    Please note that the costs above are very basic running costs for the heating and HWS only. They don't include costs for ventilation, power, lighting etc.

    If anyone wants to work out basic costs the calculation is...

    kWh/year x fuel cost (/kWh)
    system efficiency

    Efficiency for gas fired system circa 95% (0.95) and CoP of ASHP system (average) is 250-300% (2.5 - 3)
    Last edited by Point; 23-01-2022 at 12:52 PM.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    running the ashp at 18c will probably have to reduce next winter..... probably drop to 13c depending upon price, going to work out tomorrow how much energy the pond is truely costing me a day in both electric and water, airlifts look a viable option to reduce some energy usage but i do not see how i can retro fit these to my current set up thus eradicating the need for the 2 pumps...... each vario pump running at 45w and 50w respectively which run the BD and Skimmer, shower and through the ASHP and back into the pond via 2 returns for 18k litres per hour combined which i think is pretty good.
    Last edited by smartin; 23-01-2022 at 05:49 PM.
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  7. #24
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Point View Post
    The real blame for the cost increase is the massive spike in wholesale gas prices and that is mainly due to Russia drastically, and deliberately, reducing the supply of gas to Europe. They are using it to blackmail the EU to agree to the new Nord Stream 2 gas pipe scheme which basically runs from Russia to Germany. Germany have just give them the middle finger by signing a big hydrogen gas deal with the Ukraine.

    We don't even ship in gas directly, the EU get it from Russia then after a mark-up, we buy it off them. The sooner we ditch gas altogether the better imho.

    I'm currently designing the mechanical services for housing schemes and have done some running cost analysis comparisons for various technologies.. gas fired, ASHP and fully electric being the main 3.

    The results are:

    Fully electric radiators/convector heaters.. forget it.. 2500+

    Gas fired heating and HWS generation..
    Running cost (based on 4p/kWh) - 850

    ASHP & ASHP generated HWS..
    Running cost (based on 17p/kWh & CoP of ASHP, which varies, of 3 average) - 991

    The CoP figure of 3 for the ASHP may be a bit high as typically they range between 1.7 and 4.5 depending on external temperature and the temperature of the water you want to heat to, but it shows that currently an ASHP costs more to run than a gas fired system.

    As from 2025 it is very unlikely that anyone will be allowed to install a gas fired heating system in a new build house, but it's expected that existing systems will be replaced with boilers fired by a mixture of gas and hydrogen. No-one knows how or where we're going to get the hydrogen yet, or even whether it will be blue, green or a mix of the two types.

    One thing is for sure though, gas prices are only going to keep rising. The Government zero carbon target means that we will have to get rid of gas and the cynic in me thinks that in order to do that they will "encourage" people to stop using it ie. make it too expensive to use.

    For anyone interested, the final housing development services will be ASHP/ASHP generated HWS/MVHR ventilation and PV panels.

    Please note that the costs above are very basic running costs for the heating and HWS only. They don't include costs for ventilation, power, lighting etc.

    If anyone wants to work out basic costs the calculation is...

    kWh/year x fuel cost (/kWh)
    system efficiency

    Efficiency for gas fired system circa 95% (0.95) and CoP of ASHP system (average) is 250-300% (2.5 - 3)
    Very interesting read and would love to know more in plain mans language.

    I think this increase is going to effect the koi industry a lot and myself in particular.
    John

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  9. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Could not agree more John, i need to understand if airlifts can practically replace vario pumps within our current set ups, that would help, i hunted around to install the most economic pumps availble within my budget as some are surprisingly inefficient at low operating speeds compared to others.....at full tilt they are all quite similar unless spending mega bucks on top end pumps.... mind you it might well be that air pumps would have to run at similar wattage to my vario pumps to produce the desired effects?? i do not know enough yet about them....
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  11. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai Point's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Very interesting read and would love to know more in plain mans language.

    I think this increase is going to effect the koi industry a lot and myself in particular.
    Which bit do you want clarifying John?

 

 
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