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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Shower on top of bio ?

    Was pondering in the garage today where I have my drum,bio and shower.
    Now the shower exits through a 4ins pipe on the bottom and travels a fair old distance to pond return.
    Any benefit putting the shower over the bio?
    Has anyone done it?

    Still need 2 pumps but return shorter and less footprint in the garage.
    Measured up and it would fit/work.


    John

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Was pondering in the garage today where I have my drum,bio and shower.
    Now the shower exits through a 4ins pipe on the bottom and travels a fair old distance to pond return.
    Any benefit putting the shower over the bio?
    Has anyone done it?

    Still need 2 pumps but return shorter and less footprint in the garage.
    Measured up and it would fit/work.
    Think it's queeni that done a combi drum with a shower over it . Dft posted it

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Got it wrong mate its profidrum

    https://www.profidrum.com/uk/product...h-showerfilter

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    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    it has been done, evolve combi filters done one a while back and Queni Koi/DVS now do one too.
    could work well, recycling bio water to get more retention time and added aeration with the shower.
    it's a good work around for smaller combi's that have a limited bio typically 100 litres K1.

    the only downside for me is how to strike the balance between pond turnover, or retention in bio.
    do you either turn the pond volume over at the submerged bio speed of once every 1 to 2 hours.
    or the much faster shower speed of once to twice an hour?

    i've thought of it myself as it's a longish gravity return run for my shower.
    but my shower is the main form of filtration with the K1 bio just as an add on.
    i get the maximum output from of my shower pump, as it has a very short run from the drum to the shower...
    1-2 times an hour turnover and a free return to the pond rather than having to pump it back....


    QK/DVS combi shower



    Evolve combi



    Last edited by davethefish1; 09-01-2022 at 06:20 PM.

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  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Have to have a good think about this, would keep the 4ins from drum to bio and other drum outlet to pump to shower to bio.

    Bio outlet pump would need to be good to keep flow going.
    If I put shower over bio it will block part of the window which I wouldn't like so may have to move everything.
    John

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Hi John.

    I've got a DIY shower sat on my bio chamber. I chucked the pump (a 10k jebao vari) into the bio chamber and the shower returns back into the bio chamber, it works a treat and would recommend such a set up to anyone... although I'd probably install the pump dry and attach it to an outlet on the bio.

    I like it because however much water you want to pump over the shower you can without having to worry about balancing, exceeding the max flow on your drum filter or it running your bio chamber dry.

    Also it keeps the footprint and pipework of your filters down to a minimum. And as filters are generally enclosed (mine are in a shed) it helps reduce the chilling effect and noise that you'd get by having a shower outside.

    As DTF says it increases retention time by a fair amount too. So as far as I can see the downsides are very limited.

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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 09-01-2022 at 08:25 PM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Have to have a good think about this, would keep the 4ins from drum to bio and other drum outlet to pump to shower to bio.

    Bio outlet pump would need to be good to keep flow going.
    If I put shower over bio it will block part of the window which I wouldn't like so may have to move everything.
    Rather than have the shower pump feed off your drum, could you not have it feed off one of the outlets on your bio?

    By pumping from the drum (rather than bio chamber) you are limited in how much water you can put over the shower, by the max flow on your drum.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Rather than have the shower pump feed off your drum, could you not have it feed off one of the outlets on your bio?

    By pumping from the drum (rather than bio chamber) you are limited in how much water you can put over the shower, by the max flow on your drum.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    Very good point Mr T.
    So I have a Draco 25 2x4" outlets with 1 going to bio.
    Bio has 2 outlets,so if I pump from 1 to shower it would be going round in circles and the other bio outlet to pump to pond.
    I have a Jebao 18k variable and a 10k sequence pump,would I use 10k sequence on shower and variable on return?
    John

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Very good point Mr T.
    So I have a Draco 25 2x4" outlets with 1 going to bio.
    Bio has 2 outlets,so if I pump from 1 to shower it would be going round in circles and the other bio outlet to pump to pond.
    I have a Jebao 18k variable and a 10k sequence pump,would I use 10k sequence on shower and variable on return?
    You can use the outlet from the drum for no extra throughput.
    As the shower would bypass the bio and if the shower pump was faster than the return to pond.
    It would just draw water to the drum from the 4" bio feed in a reverse flow

    The pond return pump would still dictate drum throughput...

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  19. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    You can use the outlet from the drum for no extra throughput.
    As the shower would bypass the bio and if the shower pump was faster than the return to pond.
    It would just draw water to the drum from the 4" bio feed in a reverse flow

    The pond return pump would still dictate drum throughput...
    Sorry Dave not with you on that one mate,maybe a bit thick tonight.
    John

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  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Sorry Dave not with you on that one mate,maybe a bit thick tonight.
    Id draw a picture but im on the phone tonight

    But drum to shower, shower drop into bio, bio reverse feed back to drum clean side in a loop circuit.
    you could put 100,000 lph through the shower and nothing would go through the drum screen.....

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  23. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I think I get it.

    If you deem the clean side of the drum and bio as the same body of water (connected by a pipe)... then if the shower pump takes too much water from the clean side (so it's lower than the water level in the bio chamber), then the water would want to equalise I..e. the higher water level in the bio would flow back to the lower water level in the clean side of the drum.

    I think I'd prefer not to mess about with the drum outlets in my set up and just whack a shower pump on one of the bio outlets (in my set up, my drum is too close to the bio to get a pump between them). Plus if the pump is on the bio outlet, you know that water has had to travel all the way across the bio before getting pumped into the shower.




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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 09-01-2022 at 10:31 PM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  25. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    Id draw a picture but im on the phone tonight

    But drum to shower, shower drop into bio, bio reverse feed back to drum clean side in a loop circuit.
    you could put 100,000 lph through the shower and nothing would go through the drum screen.....
    With you now Dave thanks,so there are a few options.
    John

  26. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    I think I get it.

    If you deem the clean side of the drum and bio as the same body of water (connected by a pipe)... then if the shower pump takes too much water from the clean side (so it's lower than the water level in the bio chamber), then the water would want to equalise I..e. the higher water level in the bio would flow back to the lower water level in the clean side of the drum.

    I think I'd prefer not to mess about withe the drum outlets and just whack a shower pump on one of the bio outlets (in my set up. My drum is too close to the bio to get a pump between them). Plus if the pump is on the bio outlet, you know that water has had to travel all the way across the bio before getting pumped into the shower.



    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    Getting with it now,so feeding the shower from the bio means the bio is going round in circles and if I put second pump on bio to the pond return that will be the only one pulling from the drum so could go full whack.

    Only useing one drum outlet?
    John

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  28. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Yep that's it in a nut shell.

    That's why I love the set up.

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  30. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Making sence now thanks for your help guys will have to look and see how much work is involved in the pipework now.

    Can I ask what size pump on your pond return Mr T.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I use an airlift.

    So the technical answer is a 58watt hi blow xp air pump (which also supplies air to my bio tank too).

    So not much help I'm afraid.

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  34. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Another point to consider would be ammonia gassing off.

    Idealy all the water would pass over the shower first to gas off some ammonia at its highest concentration, reducing the amount of nitrite and nitrate generated.
    The bio would then further reduce the ammonia and nitrite that the shower had first crack at...

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  36. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Thanks lads this sounds like a mission
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Aggrowe's Avatar
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    I thought bio chambers produced quite a few nitrates?
    And showers among other things reduced nitrates?

    Would it not be better to have shower after bio, or because of flow completely separate from bio?

    Would the nitrates be reduced if just recirculating through the shower over the bio?

    Would like to know, because a shower over my bio chamber would be perfect for the space I have, but always thought it wasn’t worth it due to the above?


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