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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    my trickle rate of about 1100 litres a day, is partially for nitrate readings,
    but also to remove hormones in the water that fish excrete, and any biological byproducts...
    all i know is they are a lot livelier and happier with a lot of fresh water coming in

    though i will proably back it off a bit when i drop the temp right down for winter...
    Agreed mate they do like the fresh water, mine seem very content at the moment though, how cold it has been lately I would be warmer and more comfortable getting in with them

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Agreed mate they do like the fresh water, mine seem very content at the moment though, how cold it has been lately I would be warmer and more comfortable getting in with them
    Hi dbs,
    how big is your pond? 1100 litres a day assume your not on a water meter?? that's a lot of water.... its not an area that i have much knowledge of, i am aware that fresh water helps with pheremones and also heard that fresh water helps them to grow as they have no ref on space around them so will not grow just to their pond size.... again only what i have been told / learnt over the past couple of years...how true this all is ??
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi dbs,
    how big is your pond? 1100 litres a day assume your not on a water meter?? that's a lot of water.... its not an area that i have much knowledge of, i am aware that fresh water helps with pheremones and also heard that fresh water helps them to grow as they have no ref on space around them so will not grow just to their pond size.... again only what i have been told / learnt over the past couple of years...how true this all is ??
    Thank god that no I am not on a water meter

    My pond is 6,000 gallons plus filters, I like the sound of the water changes helping them grow, that does make sense, I will be doing some measuring in the spring on the newest batch of pond closure fish to see how my heating has affected growth, though growth is not my purpose it is to have enjoyment from the fish for a much longer period and hopefully improve their health

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  7. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    I need to read up on that one could be ideal to turn up the trickle a bit more on fry tank

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  9. #25
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Dave, could you grow some water cress in the shower?

    It is good at lowering the nitrates,what I do is get a bag or two from the supermarket and throw it in a bucket of water.
    After about a week you have some shoots growing,so shove these in between the shower tiers as long as the roots are getting water and they hang over the side,they then grow like mad.
    John

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  11. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Dave, could you grow some water cress in the shower?

    It is good at lowering the nitrates,what I do is get a bag or two from the supermarket and throw it in a bucket of water.
    After about a week you have some shoots growing,so shove these in between the shower tiers as long as the roots are getting water and they hang over the side,they then grow like mad.
    the shower is in the dark filter house, i'd have to light it with grow lamps...
    if going for nitrate removal i'd want something that works year round like anoxic or anerobic...

    plus i'll see if the shower makes any difference after it has had chance to mature properly...

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  13. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    shower should help Dave big time i would of thought..... are you using your old filters within your new build or is everything new ?
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  15. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    shower should help Dave big time i would of thought..... are you using your old filters within your new build or is everything new ?
    all the filters are new mate,
    but i transferred the shower media that was running submerged in the old filter to the new shower,
    and K1 micro from the old filter to the new bio, so i didn't really have to cycle the pond.
    but the shower media has had to 'adapt' to running in the shower...

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  17. #29
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I’ve been running pond water recycling RO to reduce the amount of mains top up water I need. My general rule for water changes is 25% a week in summer and 10% a week in winter when not running the recycling RO.

    The recycling RO takes water from the clean side of the drum and sends it through 2 washable sediment filters then pumped through an RO membrane. It saves quite a lot of water compared to running a standard RO where half of the fresh water goes to waste. You do use some extra electricity though with the pump (when I run plain ordinary RO I don’t need to use a booster pump as I’m using 4040 Eco RO membranes which have a good output at relatives low pressure). For me it is still cost effective as in the summer months where it’s running the most I’m on solar electricity during daylight hours anyway.

    The big advantage other than water savings is that it actually removes the nitrates, phosphates and pheromones from the water.

    If anybody is interested in considering this, Andy Finch is now building and selling entire setups from his new pond filtration business. I built my system prior to him doing this, but did copy from what he had done on his own pond. My system does not look neat and tidy like what Andy is selling … function over form
    https://www.finchfiltration.co.uk/

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  19. #30
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I’ve been running pond water recycling RO to reduce the amount of mains top up water I need. My general rule for water changes is 25% a week in summer and 10% a week in winter when not running the recycling RO.

    The recycling RO takes water from the clean side of the drum and sends it through 2 washable sediment filters then pumped through an RO membrane. It saves quite a lot of water compared to running a standard RO where half of the fresh water goes to waste. You do use some extra electricity though with the pump (when I run plain ordinary RO I don’t need to use a booster pump as I’m using 4040 Eco RO membranes which have a good output at relatives low pressure). For me it is still cost effective as in the summer months where it’s running the most I’m on solar electricity during daylight hours anyway.

    The big advantage other than water savings is that it actually removes the nitrates, phosphates and pheromones from the water.

    If anybody is interested in considering this, Andy Finch is now building and selling entire setups from his new pond filtration business. I built my system prior to him doing this, but did copy from what he had done on his own pond. My system does not look neat and tidy like what Andy is selling … function over form
    https://www.finchfiltration.co.uk/
    recycle RO is a great system,
    is your mainswater reletivley low in KH already,
    as i know when starting from a high hardness level,
    you have to bring it down slowly with a larger rejection rate, or risk blocking the membrane...

    a 4040 would be great but not cheap for the membrane, or housing...
    how long do you run the membrane for? as they can really shift some water....2600 gallons per day

  20. #31
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    recycle RO is a great system,
    is your mainswater reletivley low in KH already,
    as i know when starting from a high hardness level,
    you have to bring it down slowly with a larger rejection rate, or risk blocking the membrane...

    a 4040 would be great but not cheap for the membrane, or housing...
    how long do you run the membrane for? as they can really shift some water....2600 gallons per day
    I tend to run mine for around 6 one hour period during the day- to use solar power but also prolong the life of the booster pump because they do burn out if you try to run them too continuously.

    My mains water KH varies seasonally- it is often as low as 6 in winter but can be 9 or 20 in summer, depending on where they are drawing the mains water from. I live at the foot of the limestone hills of the Mendip hills, but the reservoirs pump water from rivers that are not necessarily fed from water that drained from the hills. My pond KH would never be as high as the incoming mains top up anyway because I’ve got a fair fish load with the filter bacteria using up a fair amount of carbonates especially in summer.

    When running recycling RO you do need to also top up with mains because of drum rinse losses and RO waste losses (although these are a lot lower than traditional RO losses). Some people use RO for the mains top up too. I dont bother because it actually saves me a bit of bicarb just adding filtered mains at a low flow rate.

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  22. #32
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Also worth a mention- your RO membrane doesn’t get hammered by water hardness when it’s filtering pond water which never has any chlorine in it and has a much lower GH and KH than mains. You do get a biofilm buildup over time though, which Andy can clean off with an alkaline solution. If you keep 2 membranes, you just seal the used on in a 4” pipe full of RO water and give it to him for cleaning while you use the other membrane. You could do this cleaning yourself- but strong alkali is nasty stuff you don’t want on your skin or in your lungs.

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  24. #33
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i think thats probably why a 4040 will be OTT for my mere 2500 gallons...

    i'd only probably want to run 450 litres RO product to 150 litres to waste a day, @ 3:1
    with maybe 350-450 litres fresh dechlorinated water in.
    to start with....

    so only 100 gallons product water a day...
    i could probably manage that from the standard 3 x 100gpd membrane RO set up i already have.
    i would just need some 20" pleated filters 20 micron and 5 micron, 20
    and a standard 200gpd RO booster pump and just run it 1 hour on 2 hours off. 75
    plus set up a solenoid on a timer for auto flush... 30

    125 and i could rig up a small scale RO recycle....
    job for next year i think...

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  26. #34
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    You don’t really need to worry about ‘overproducing’ RO water if you’re recycling- as the TDS comes down on the pond you get a better and better ratio of output to waste. It’s not like you’re wasting water by running it more, because all you’re doing is ‘cleaning’ the water that’s already in the pond, not doing actual water changes. The more you run it, the lower your nitrate and phosphate go which is good. The downside is you need to add more bicarb to keep your KH at around 2 (if that’s how you decide to run it).

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  28. #35
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    You don’t really need to worry about ‘overproducing’ RO water if you’re recycling- as the TDS comes down on the pond you get a better and better ratio of output to waste. It’s not like you’re wasting water by running it more, because all you’re doing is ‘cleaning’ the water that’s already in the pond, not doing actual water changes. The more you run it, the lower your nitrate and phosphate go which is good. The downside is you need to add more bicarb to keep your KH at around 2 (if that’s how you decide to run it).
    yes, if i did manage to get the hardness down to a lower level i could increase the product to waste ratio.
    i'll probably just give what kit i already have a go, and see if i like running my pond that way...
    if i like it and need more product, then i'd maybe look at getting a bigger set up.

    the way i figure, even if i don't manage to run that much water through the RO.
    putting pure water back in the pond can't hurt and will only improve the quality...

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