Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334

    New equipment in strange pump readings

    Well the ASHP was plumbed in today and fired up, its currently running on its lowest running setting "silent" as the pond is at 14 and i have set ASHP to 15c just to get it working etc, well all i can say is that the air coming out the fan is frigging freezing anyhow all seems well and temp now at 14.3c so getting there.
    The shower has been installed and looks great on the side of the pond, its not too loud which i am pleased about and the returning water is quite theraputic i just hope the neighbours think the same.....
    Finally three new Jebao 22k sine wave vario pumps were installed replacing the 3 year old Aqua Forte's 10k and 20k, what i have found strange is that each pump when run at there lowest setting of 30% shows them running at 80w which i think i quite high, 30% is only 6600 litres flow, if i run the 20k aqua forte at 40% which is 8000 litres from memory i am sure this would only be around 60w runnning, however if i run the jebao flat out so 22k litres it runs at 200w yet the 20k aqua forte flat out was in excess of 200w.... does not make sense why the three jebao at 30% are all at 80w, it wpuld appear that the aqua forte's are cheaper to run at say 40 to 80% but the Jebao's are cheaper to run flat out and moving more water ???

    Will put some pics up tomorrow as run out of time today...


    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  2. Thanks Graeme, davethefish1, Ajm, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Bedworth
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanks / Likes
    5625
    glad it all went well mate
    soon get that pond up to summer temps
    bet your relived the shower is quiet...keep the neighbours happy

    strange your aqua forte 20,000 vario runs over 200w, mine at full tilt only does 184w.

  4. Thanks Ajm, smartin, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion samp09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    2,017
    Thanks / Likes
    4011
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    glad it all went well mate
    soon get that pond up to summer temps
    bet your relived the shower is quiet...keep the neighbours happy

    strange your aqua forte 20,000 vario runs over 200w, mine at full tilt only does 184w.
    Mines the same Dave, 184w

  6. Thanks smartin, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    glad it all went well mate
    soon get that pond up to summer temps
    bet your relived the shower is quiet...keep the neighbours happy

    strange your aqua forte 20,000 vario runs over 200w, mine at full tilt only does 184w.
    Hi Dave,
    Yes my AF DM Vario 20k was 219w - the jebao 22k sine wave vario is 200w.... cannot get my head round 30% or 6600 litres is 80w ?

    Anyhow i have to take back about the pond builder as the pump did actually come out between the pipe work with like a mm to spare the new one went back the same, been spending time this evening trying to get the pumps and the water levels balanced as the new pumps and equipment has changed the levels in the filter box, one thing that was identified today was a return that appears to be in the wrong end of the filter box, basically it returns clean water to one end of the pond but this water has not been through the bio ? another builder weird thing, i often wondered how this return worked after speaking to another pond builder today and the plumber it was all thoroughly investigated and this return was set up strangely, yes i do have 2 returns and yes both produce the whirlpool effect but one is returning clean water but not water that has been through the bio..... i am still learning but surely this cannot be right, i am now contemplating blanking off this return and just having the ASHP and return running from one 22k vario and the shower running on its own 22k vario with the skimmer and BD being pulled through by both......
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  8. Thanks john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    Dave and Sam could you let me know what wattage your 20k varios are showing at 30% please, thanks Steve.
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  10. Thanks davethefish1, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Bedworth
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanks / Likes
    5625
    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Dave and Sam could you let me know what wattage your 20k varios are showing at 30% please, thanks Steve.
    i'll wind it down tomorrow and see what it says mate

  12. Thanks Ajm, smartin, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    cheers Dave...
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  14. Thanks john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #8

  16. Thanks Ajm, john1, smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    No problem Steve
    thanks Sam....
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  18. Thanks Ajm, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    7,012
    Thanks / Likes
    12726
    Glad it's going well Steve you must be excited about it all.

    Let us know how the ashp goes and put pics up.

    Was wondering why you need 3 pumps Steve seems a lot as normally 2 are enough,you keeping the others as spare.

    I have the Jebao 18000 and turned right down to goes to about 30watt looked at the 22000 do you get good flow with it ?
    John

  20. Thanks smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Glad it's going well Steve you must be excited about it all.

    Let us know how the ashp goes and put pics up.

    Was wondering why you need 3 pumps Steve seems a lot as normally 2 are enough,you keeping the others as spare.

    I have the Jebao 18000 and turned right down to goes to about 30watt looked at the 22000 do you get good flow with it ?
    Hi John,
    I got a third pump to run the shower seperately and upgraded my other 2 to 22k as they were 10k and 20k which on my previous set up was sufficient, listening to advice it seemed the shower needs as much flow as possible so rather than running a 20k flat out to achieve this i went down the seperate route and so it has its own 22k, after yesterdays installation and when we turned everything on there was an issue with water levels which was worrying, i had the pond up full but the 3 pumps running dropped the water level in the filter quite considerably it was then that we realised that a return was in fact pulling water out the filter box from the right hand side of the filter where as the other return and main outlet which are on the left after the bio were competing, because the return on the right hand side was closest to the pond it was pulling more water quicker if that makes sense..... if we turned this pump off then water levels were fine, it would appear that the pond builder retro fittted this return to provide 2 returns one at each end of the pond to make the whirlpool effect but this return is pulling in clean water but not water that has been through the bio section as this is at the other end of the filter box....... not sure what i am going to do about this at the moment...
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  22. Thanks davethefish1, Mike Bass Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Bedworth
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanks / Likes
    5625
    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi John,
    I got a third pump to run the shower seperately and upgraded my other 2 to 22k as they were 10k and 20k which on my previous set up was sufficient, listening to advice it seemed the shower needs as much flow as possible so rather than running a 20k flat out to achieve this i went down the seperate route and so it has its own 22k, after yesterdays installation and when we turned everything on there was an issue with water levels which was worrying, i had the pond up full but the 3 pumps running dropped the water level in the filter quite considerably it was then that we realised that a return was in fact pulling water out the filter box from the right hand side of the filter where as the other return and main outlet which are on the left after the bio were competing, because the return on the right hand side was closest to the pond it was pulling more water quicker if that makes sense..... if we turned this pump off then water levels were fine, it would appear that the pond builder retro fittted this return to provide 2 returns one at each end of the pond to make the whirlpool effect but this return is pulling in clean water but not water that has been through the bio section as this is at the other end of the filter box....... not sure what i am going to do about this at the moment...

    you don't want too much water being pulled through the bio section, or you won't have enough contact time.
    if the return that isn't going through the bio is still being filtered by the drum that fine.
    the drum will handle more than twice what the bio will.

    10,000 lph max for a bio section of 200 ltrs volume that would otherwise hold about 100 ltrs of K1 imo....
    i run my 200 litre bio that holds 100 ltrs of K1 at about 5000 lph, (once every 2 hours turnover)
    with 20,000 lph over the shower (twice an hour turnover)

    my water level is about 2" down on the dirty side,
    because the 2 x 4" inlets struggle to keep up running at 25,000 lph
    i should really have an extra 4" inlet with hindsight...
    and/or a bigger drum...
    Last edited by davethefish1; 24-11-2021 at 11:25 AM.

  24. Thanks smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  25. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    8,287
    Thanks / Likes
    16434
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    you don't want too much water being pulled through the bio section, or you won't have enough contact time.
    if the return that isn't going through the bio is still being filtered by the drum that fine.
    the drum will handle more than twice what the bio will.

    10,000 lph max for a bio section of 200 ltrs volume that would otherwise hold about 100 ltrs of K1 imo....
    i run my 200 litre bio that holds 100 ltrs of K1 at about 5000 lph, (once every 2 hours turnover)
    with 20,000 lph over the shower (twice an hour turnover)

    my water level is about 2" down on the dirty side,
    because the 2 x 4" inlets struggle to keep up running at 25,000 lph
    i should really have an extra 4" inlet with hindsight...
    and/or a bigger drum...
    See what I don't understand and probably as am a bit thick. But with contact times . You say yours is running once every 2 hours turnover but if you double the turn over rate do you end up with the same contact time over the 24h period

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  26. Thanks davethefish1, smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Bedworth
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanks / Likes
    5625
    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Dave and Sam could you let me know what wattage your 20k varios are showing at 30% please, thanks Steve.
    Hi Steve,
    just powered my Aqua forte Vario 20,000 down to F30 (%) and get P29 (watts)

  28. Thanks smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    Hi Steve,
    just powered my Aqua forte Vario 20,000 down to F30 (%) and get P29 (watts)
    Thanks Dave,
    yes thats what i thought it was thanks for confirming this, weird isnt it 6000 litres for 29 watts yet i am at 80 watts for 6600 litres does not make any sense, strangely the smart meter showed hardly any difference this morning apart from around 10p for a full nights usage on 2 pumps running at 160w combined compared to old set up, maybe the displays are not accurate, no idea....
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  30. Thanks Ajm, davethefish1, samp09 Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Bedworth
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanks / Likes
    5625
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    See what I don't understand and probably as am a bit thick. But with contact times . You say yours is running once every 2 hours turnover but if you double the turn over rate do you end up with the same contact time over the 24h period

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

    you will always have some small level of ammonia in a pond due to dilution factors
    every 10% your filters procces's the next 10% has 1% of the already filtered water in it... and the next 10% has 2% of already filtered water ect...
    an over simplification but you get the idea.

    and depending on contact time with the biofilm of the filters depends on what level of ammonia is returned to the pond.
    it isn't 0% unless the contact time is massive, and part of the reason the old formula of 1/3rd the area of the pond in bio filters
    =massive contact time...

    but if the ammonia that is being processed into nitrite by the filters, isn't retained long enough to get mostly converted into nitrate,
    you are effectively returning nitrite to the pond, where it is diluted and has to run through the percentage calc to get back to the filters.

    here is a handy video that touches well on it.

    Last edited by davethefish1; 24-11-2021 at 12:53 PM.

  32. Thanks samp09, smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  33. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Bedworth
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanks / Likes
    5625
    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Thanks Dave,
    yes thats what i thought it was thanks for confirming this, weird isnt it 6000 litres for 29 watts yet i am at 80 watts for 6600 litres does not make any sense, strangely the smart meter showed hardly any difference this morning apart from around 10p for a full nights usage on 2 pumps running at 160w combined compared to old set up, maybe the displays are not accurate, no idea....
    the F(%) percentage of power has ime no relation to actual output of the pump when installed in a pond.
    only way i've roughly worked out my lph is with a bucket and a timer, too many variables imo...
    my 20,000 on 6 meters of 2" pipework is running at 85w for about 5,000 lph no head height.
    my 30,000 on 1.5 meters of 3" pipework is running at 240watts for about 20,000 lph with a 1 meter head.

    i highly doubt 29 watts is shifting anywhere near 6,000 lph...
    unless it's sitting in a tank of water not connected to any pipework at zero head...
    Last edited by davethefish1; 24-11-2021 at 11:58 AM.

  34. Thanks samp09, smartin Thanked / Liked this Post
  35. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion samp09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    2,017
    Thanks / Likes
    4011
    Hey Steve, just checked mine, I get 25w @ 30% and 191w @ 100% although more steady at 190w. Just to add I am on 1.5" pipework and they have 2" inlet/outlet so this is probably slightly restrictive too, meaning its losing a bit of efficiency.

    Once the drum is in I am re-plumbing to 2" pipework to the pump from the filter and off the pump which will split in a 1.5" Y to feed all 3 returns to hopefully improve efficiency and performance.

  36. Thanks Ajm, smartin, davethefish1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  37. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion samp09's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    2,017
    Thanks / Likes
    4011
    The fella at Japan Koi import has a chart for all this and he reckons the displays are miles off in most pumps, having tested them with the right kit (don't have a clue what, he used to be in a related trade or something) He claims that actually the EA pumps are more efficient than the Aqua Forte pumps but neither actually use the wattage on the display, usually higher and less pumped through than what you would think to the point of nearly half the claimed maximum. I don't know how true this is but he's pretty convinced that this is the case from all his testing, but he also does have a lot of EA pumps for sale always.. Basically from what I remember him saying, you are getting about 10k max through a 20k pump as the actual figures given by the brands are only true if the pump is not going through any pipework and literally firing straight out the unit into the air.

  38. Thanks smartin, davethefish1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  39. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    East Sussex
    Posts
    1,990
    Thanks / Likes
    4334
    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    The fella at Japan Koi import has a chart for all this and he reckons the displays are miles off in most pumps, having tested them with the right kit (don't have a clue what, he used to be in a related trade or something) He claims that actually the EA pumps are more efficient than the Aqua Forte pumps but neither actually use the wattage on the display, usually higher and less pumped through than what you would think to the point of nearly half the claimed maximum. I don't know how true this is but he's pretty convinced that this is the case from all his testing, but he also does have a lot of EA pumps for sale always.. Basically from what I remember him saying, you are getting about 10k max through a 20k pump as the actual figures given by the brands are only true if the pump is not going through any pipework and literally firing straight out the unit into the air.
    thats interesting Sam and from what i am seeing would appear to be true as my actual consumption overnight is up but not much compared to when running the aqua forte dm vario's...... i might give this guy a call, cheers Steve
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  40. Thanks samp09 Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:39 PM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2021 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.