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Thread: i'm a donkey...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i'm a donkey...

    had a busy day yesterday...
    but managed time to do some gill scrapes, gill flukes confirmed.
    went and got fluke M from shop,
    mixed up with boiling water,
    remembered to turn off UV,
    removed the activated carbon from shower,
    dosed the fluke M over an hour last night. all good.

    got up this morning, water gin clear...


    ...forgot to remove the plugs from the drum...
    like i did for 24 hrs with the previous flukesolve treatment a while back...

    what to do now...
    assume fluke M has been mostly removed...like flukesolve would have been?
    water at 22C

    redose fluke M tomorrow?

    redose fluke M in 5 days?

    dose flukesolve now as prazi based not flubendazole?
    then dose fluke M, 5 days later...

    remembering to remove plugs before any fluke treatment....
    ...why don't they make a liquid version....?



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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Not the cheapest mistake to make then mate . Hope you get sorted bud

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,

    remove the plugs from your drum.... what plugs are they then ? but yes agree with you why they do not make a liquid mix that is fully diluted into your water which reduces the risk of the medication from getting removed by the mesh/drum etc would surely be a huge hit amongst us all.
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Not the cheapest mistake to make then mate . Hope you get sorted bud

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    thanks,
    it was the fluke M not the more expensive flukesolve,
    plus i had to buy a packet bigger than i need so i have plenty of it...enough to treat my pond 4 times over...

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi Dave,

    remove the plugs from your drum.... what plugs are they then ? but yes agree with you why they do not make a liquid mix that is fully diluted into your water which reduces the risk of the medication from getting removed by the mesh/drum etc would surely be a huge hit amongst us all.
    the bypass plugs mate,
    i have two, one each side inside of the drum.
    you can see them in the pic below either side of the chute.

    i just throttle down the BD a bit and slow the shower,
    plus put some filter matting on the top of the shower to keep the worst of the crap out...

    Last edited by davethefish1; 16-11-2021 at 09:52 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi Dave,

    remove the plugs from your drum.... what plugs are they then ? but yes agree with you why they do not make a liquid mix that is fully diluted into your water which reduces the risk of the medication from getting removed by the mesh/drum etc would surely be a huge hit amongst us all.
    How dose it attack the fluke ?? wonder if it has to be a very fine soild to do it's job ?

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    How dose it attack the fluke ?? wonder if it has to be a very fine soild to do it's job ?

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    not 100% but i think i read that flukesolve (prazi) has to be ingested, and flubendazole is absorbed by the fluke.
    both are powders but i have no idea if they can be totally dissolved in water...

    or if the medication is dissolved into the water out of the powder...so would remain in the water after the powder is removed by a drum...?

    would make koi keeping with a drum a hell of a lot easier.....

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Thank god for being poor lol I don't have that problem . .



    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I would wait a week and redose (with bypass bungs removed). It’s a safe interval just in case the first dose was fully dissolved in the water so is still in there. Do your water change before the redose

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hey Dave we all make mistakes mate no ones perfect but we learn from them,good job it wasnt flukesolve.
    No idea when to reuse what does it say on the packet?
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I would wait a week and redose (with bypass bungs removed). Itís a safe interval just in case the first dose was fully dissolved in the water so is still in there. Do your water change before the redose
    thanks Feline
    but i feel that at 22C gill flukes will be hatching out at a rate of 5 days or less. that's going to be a tough call sitting on my hands watching things deteriorate.
    believing there is no medication in the water...

    some of the fish that had a build up of mucus that briefly improved the day after treatment,
    is back again, and some of the fish have started flashing.

    i'm doing a fast trickle in/out now, and will put 5kgs of activated carbon in the shower to remove most of anything thats possibly left in there.
    and aim to redose tomorrow.

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  23. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Hey Dave we all make mistakes mate no ones perfect but we learn from them,good job it wasnt flukesolve.
    No idea when to reuse what does it say on the packet?
    packet says 7 days,
    but i'm going to to do water changes and add 5kg of activated carbon to remove the majority of anything thats possibly left in there.
    and redose tomorrow.
    i think that will mitigate the risk of overdose vs no treatment....

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  25. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan dave . Hope all go's well .

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Sounds like a plan dave . Hope all go's well .

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

    i have a strong gut feeling that there is no or very little medication in the water,
    whenever i've treated for gill flukes in the past without a drum, the symptoms have rapidly diminished, not got worse...
    the problem is gill flukes coming back when you have stopped treatment,
    which i think is delayed egg hatching in the prescence of some type of treatments... (resistance)
    i ended up treating for 4 weeks last time iirc... and used two different types of treatment.

    the big issue using a drum is that how long do you leave it bypassed...
    ideally for weeks to keep the medication in the water at all times, so as soon as any flukes hatch out they are killed...

    but doing that with very little mechanical filtration is going to have a bad effect on the bio particularly the shower media...
    what i'm going to do there is add filter matting in the top of the shower to catch the worst of the crap.

    in hindsight you need an empty brush box in the inlet section of the drum to use when the drums off line,
    all i can fit in the drums inlet section is 4 x 100mm x 16" brushes. but the plugs are opposite the inlet pipes so the brushes won't have much effect....
    Last edited by davethefish1; 17-11-2021 at 02:54 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    I turn both pumps off for 24 hours when treating with no food so i know the fish/water recieve the full initial benefit of the medication, I then turn pumps on but only to 30% for a few days then gradually build them back upto normal run speeds over the next few days, then water change and re treat and follow the same practice all over agian, convinced that the drum removes / traps medication within the drum/mesh and the spray bar just rinses it away to the drain.....
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Don't see it as a waste of money at all Dave.

    You'll still have to go out and buy fluke treatment from another brand when the Fluke M doesn't work anyway

    Only kidding of course, but seems so common now for fluke treatments not to work that everyone ends up buying multiple brands to kill them off anyway!

    Hopefully you can prove me wrong and kill the blighters off with the next dose.

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  33. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    I turn both pumps off for 24 hours when treating with no food so i know the fish/water recieve the full initial benefit of the medication, I then turn pumps on but only to 30% for a few days then gradually build them back upto normal run speeds over the next few days, then water change and re treat and follow the same practice all over agian, convinced that the drum removes / traps medication within the drum/mesh and the spray bar just rinses it away to the drain.....
    yeah i'd done 24 hours with the bungs out first time,
    but can't turn off the pumps for that long with a shower, as the media would dry out and the bacteria would die.

    i'm sure some boffin could create a fluke treatment in liquid form though....save all the hassle...


    i was thinking back to 1990 when i set my first koi pond up
    the only treatments for fish were either topical for ulcers, wounds, and fungus.
    salt,
    and malachite green, or formalin and malachite green.

    i don't ever remember seeing fluke treatments, PP, CT, or anything like that at the local koi dealers at the time...
    biggest problems most ponds had back then was parasite and bacterial issues coming out of spring in an unheated pond, all treated with FMG.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Don't see it as a waste of money at all Dave.

    You'll still have to go out and buy fluke treatment from another brand when the Fluke M doesn't work anyway

    Only kidding of course, but seems so common now for fluke treatments not to work that everyone ends up buying multiple brands to kill them off anyway!

    Hopefully you can prove me wrong and kill the blighters off with the next dose.
    i don't think there is a one shot deal for flukes now....

    i think part of the resistance is gill fluke eggs not hatching out when there is certain treatment in the water, or just longer hatch out times.
    that would be a simple genetic mutation for one of countless billions of fluke eggs over the years.
    and a mix or change of treatments fools them into hatching out, or a longer treatment time and then dieing...
    Last edited by davethefish1; 17-11-2021 at 03:10 PM.

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  37. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    yeah i'd done 24 hours with the bungs out first time,
    but can't turn off the pumps for that long with a shower, as the media would dry out and the bacteria would die.

    i'm sure some boffin could create a fluke treatment in liquid form though....save all the hassle...


    i was thinking back to 1990 when i set my first koi pond up
    the only treatments for fish were either topical for ulcers, wounds, and fungus.
    salt,
    and malachite green, or formalin and malachite green.

    i don't ever remember seeing fluke treatments, PP, CT, or anything like that at the local koi dealers at the time...
    biggest problems most ponds had back then was parasite and bacterial issues coming out of spring in an unheated pond, all treated with FMG.
    Showing your age there mate 1990 was I year I was born never mind setting up ponds lol

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  39. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Showing your age there mate 1990 was I year I was born never mind setting up ponds lol

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    digging first pond....


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