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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Bakki shower flow rate.

    I have not owned a shower before, interested in a 3 tier with a weir outfall, 80cm / 100cm long what rate do you run the shower at, would you reccomend a 20k or a 30k, any thoughts on the most efficient flow rate to maximise bio conversion, many thanks in advance Steve.


    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

  2. #2
    I run mine at about 12k through the shower all been running now for 5 months I have a 20k vari pump which is split to an easy pod and the shower.

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

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  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai AntB's Avatar
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    The flow rate required will depend on the amount of water you can push through the spray bar. I have recently changed from a 20k pump to a 30k pump, but don't run it at full power as the flow doesn't increase beyond a certain wattage. If I ran the pump any higher I would just be wasting money.
    6,000 gallons, aerated bottom drains, Duratec heat pump, Profidrum, Biomax 50, Bakki shower

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i'm aiming for nearly 2 times turnover of the pond per hour on mine running a 30,000 vario at 20,000lph
    as most calculations favor higher turnover rates.
    but my shower is slightly over sized and the main form of filtration on my pond,
    and i only have 100 litres of K1 micro in the bio chamber.

    but pump turnover and actual flow rate are two different things.
    putting 2" pipe on a 30,000 vario restricts it's output a lot.
    as does pushing the water a long way.

    one of the reasons i used 3" pipework directly on my 30,000 vario right next to the shower
    and only has a very short vertical pipe run 1 meter above water height to a 3" spraybar with 10mm holes.
    and then just returns to the pond under gravity.


    some good ideas on flow rates here
    Bakki Showers - About Bakki Showers

    on a single width bakki shower they reccomend
    13,500 lph with 50kg of BHM for a pond of 2500 gallons.
    or 22,500 lph with 80kg BHM for a pond of 4000 gallons.

    but also give 'optimum' or 'maximum' media to turnover rates.
    of 31,000 lph with 80kg BHM per 2000 gallons of pondwater!

    which for most would mean a flowfriend running at 260 watts...
    a 30,000 vario at 335 watts would only be able to lift about 25,000 lph max
    and thats with the pumps right next to the shower 3" pipework and almost no restriction...

    the long and short of it.... 13,000 lph good...31,000 lph brilliant

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai JimJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex1968 View Post
    I run mine at about 12k through the shower all been running now for 5 months I have a 20k vari pump which is split to an easy pod and the shower.

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk
    whats your gallonage - to give us an idea of your turnover

    I'm 4k gallons but run mine at 20k from superfish eco pump via the skimmer

    ( my main is a BD to multibay seprate from this)

    I'm asking as am I running my pump too fast for no reason when a slower rate would do the same job

    Jim

  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai Whitey79's Avatar
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    As with daves reply the faster the better or I've heard others dial it right back and go for the trickle tower effect but as for a bakki what I've read and been told the way to go is the faster the better

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  11. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones View Post
    whats your gallonage - to give us an idea of your turnover

    I'm 4k gallons but run mine at 20k from superfish eco pump via the skimmer

    ( my main is a BD to multibay seprate from this)

    I'm asking as am I running my pump too fast for no reason when a slower rate would do the same job

    Jim
    10k ltr ea 20k pump on 85%

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

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  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex1968 View Post
    10k ltr ea 20k pump on 85%

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk
    actual output will depend a lot on pipework, diameter, length, bends, height lift.
    i had a 20,000 vario at 90% on my old pond and all it could push was 5,000 lph.
    2" pipe, 7 mtr run, 1.5mtr lift, 8 bends...

    only way i found to accurately measure it is the old bucket and stopwatch,
    that gets real hairy around 20,000 lph with a bucket perched in the top of an empty shower...
    fills a bucket in about 3 seconds, and soaks you in less than 1

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  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i'm aiming for nearly 2 times turnover of the pond per hour on mine running a 30,000 vario at 20,000lph
    as most calculations favor higher turnover rates.
    but my shower is slightly over sized and the main form of filtration on my pond,
    and i only have 100 litres of K1 micro in the bio chamber.

    but pump turnover and actual flow rate are two different things.
    putting 2" pipe on a 30,000 vario restricts it's output a lot.
    as does pushing the water a long way.

    one of the reasons i used 3" pipework directly on my 30,000 vario right next to the shower
    and only has a very short vertical pipe run 1 meter above water height to a 3" spraybar with 10mm holes.
    and then just returns to the pond under gravity.


    some good ideas on flow rates here
    Bakki Showers - About Bakki Showers

    on a single width bakki shower they reccomend
    13,500 lph with 50kg of BHM for a pond of 2500 gallons.
    or 22,500 lph with 80kg BHM for a pond of 4000 gallons.

    but also give 'optimum' or 'maximum' media to turnover rates.
    of 31,000 lph with 80kg BHM per 2000 gallons of pondwater!

    which for most would mean a flowfriend running at 260 watts...
    a 30,000 vario at 335 watts would only be able to lift about 25,000 lph max
    and thats with the pumps right next to the shower 3" pipework and almost no restriction...

    the long and short of it.... 13,000 lph good...31,000 lph brilliant
    Thanks Dave,
    interesting read, i have spoken with Ian from Evolve who has the overhead retro fitted shower on his filter box which you sent me a few weeks back, he was saying 10k of media per tray.... with a 10k or 20k pump, the bigger the better in regards to tiers..... views are the more water the better, i will look at 3" pipework as that makes sense to aid flow with as little lift and pipe run i can get away, trouble is most "off the shelf" showers are 1.5" spraybars, i expect someone could make a 3" had the plumber round yesterday to discuss the changes i want to make, just waiting for the quote thanks Steve.
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  17. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai AntB's Avatar
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    Definitely the faster the better as you get the benefit of gassing off as well as adding more oxygen to the water due to the impact against the media. I have 3" pipework all the way through, but even with 10mm holes I am limited by the spray bar (also 3"). I am considering full length slots instead of holes to increase the flow rate.
    6,000 gallons, aerated bottom drains, Duratec heat pump, Profidrum, Biomax 50, Bakki shower

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  19. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai JimJones's Avatar
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    I on 2inch return and lift wise the height of a 3 tier queni koi shower plus about 1m from the bottom of my multibay area to get to water level.

    It goes through a multicyclone first too. so even though the pump is at level 10 or " 20k" on the chart in the instructions I'd say by looking at it its now ehere near that but will stick to the fastest I can .

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  21. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Although my bakki is only on 1"1/2" pipework, this is split between the bakki and an under water return.

    During summer most of the flow goes to the the bakki as I have the under water return pretty much closed all the way off at the ball valve.

    This is fed by a 20000k EA Vari pump running flat out 100% (Electric Bill )

    Like dave says I would really know the price flow rate through the bakki without trying the bucket trick.

    Screenshot_20211014-144838_ (002).jpg
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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  23. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion smartin's Avatar
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    100% Ruffers currently running a 10k and a 20k for a BD / Skimmer / x2 returns just looked and using 107w plus 20w amalgam UV and 2 air pumps..... Like you i will be using another 20k to run the shower once installed...
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  25. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    100% Ruffers currently running a 10k and a 20k for a BD / Skimmer / x2 returns just looked and using 107w plus 20w amalgam UV and 2 air pumps..... Like you i will be using another 20k to run the shower once installed...
    TBH even at 100% I wouldn't say the amount of water over the weir is anywhere near excessive. But this could be down to the 1 1/2" pipework and spray bar holes (amount & size.)
    I only used to be able to run at 50% due to the basket in the Oase skimmer, which used to restrict the amount of water entering the sieve and in turn starved the pump.(Basket binned)
    Pump now full pelt and no restriction and pump cavitation at all. (No fish in the sieve yet )


    https://youtu.be/XAuRd75RMgI
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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  27. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    Although my bakki is only on 1"1/2" pipework, this is split between the bakki and an under water return.

    During summer most of the flow goes to the the bakki as I have the under water return pretty much closed all the way off at the ball valve.

    This is fed by a 20000k EA Vari pump running flat out 100% (Electric Bill )

    Like dave says I would really know the price flow rate through the bakki without trying the bucket trick.
    running a 20,000 on 1.5" pipe is really going to restrict it, as mine was on my old pond.

    flow in a pipe is not equal in all areas, it flows faster in the middle and drags on the walls. thats one reason larger is better,
    it's fine running overated pumps slower on a smaller pipe so you are not pushing it too hard,
    but i can shorten the life of the pump, due to heat and cacification when run full tilt causing back pressure.

    you could always get a flow meter, but they're not cheap
    475 for a 3" one for mine

    https://www.absolute-koi.com/digi-fl...r-meters-1435/


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  29. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TAC's Avatar
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    I had mine going drum to pump to shower 3" pipe 2 meters high one bend from my 50,000 pump

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  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAC View Post
    I had mine going drum to pump to shower 3" pipe 2 meters high one bend from my 50,000 pump
    agreed
    it's the only way to run a shower, with the pump sat right next to it.
    any long runs and the lph takes a big hit....

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  33. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Sim's Avatar
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    Mines the same 3” pipe just below the bakki, I run it at the max the drum will handle.
    its a lot of money for a flow friend but I would buy another if mine packed up tomorrow!
    I wonder does anyone run two 2000 vari pumps up either side of a bakki into a 3” manifold?

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  35. #19
    The massive flow rates through bakki showers were originally to smash up solids in the water as they wasn't used after any real mechanical filtration, id just put as much media as you can fit in there and experiment with flow rates, for me on a 2500 Gallon pond, drum and a 1200 3 tier with as much broken csm from queni as i can fit and a 20,000 vari pump theres nothing to write home about water parameter wise between 65% and 95% on the pump

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  37. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    agreed
    it's the only way to run a shower, with the pump sat right next to it.
    any long runs and the lph takes a big hit....
    To be fair the run from my pump after the sieve to shower is probably approx. 3>4 metres in total including the riser to the spray bar.

    But you know when you build your first pond there's always a lot of I wish I'd's and Why didn't I do that's??

    Maybe next years project upgrading shower pipework to 2"?

    I suppose there are other considerations, such as the max flow through the my skimmer and midi sieve? (Max Flow Rate 18,000 Litres Per Hour)
    So it would be pretty pointless going to big with pump and pipework especially on a 1200 gallon fairly low stocked pond ?
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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