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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Direct Electric Heating Cost

    I'm still figuring out what i'm doing about heating this year.
    an ASHP is a difficult fit for my small garden with neighbours so close,
    The cost of a good unit like the thermotec inverter runs to £2300+ including drip tray heater, and not including pipe work, valves and pump costs.
    which could get it nearer to £3K..

    so how expensive is direct electric heating?
    you can run an ASHP without covers all winter because of how much it reduces electric costs,
    still not very enviromentally good, but if your ok doing that, who cares..?
    if you take an ASHP life at around 5 years including electric costs including pump running £200 a year?
    you are probably in the £4,000 ball park including pumps pipework valves ect...

    thats £800 a year over 5 years...
    you need to run it for 10 years to get that figure down to £500 a year.

    how does direct electric heating compare,
    insulating is a must not an option...
    the walls and top of your pond plus pipework to filter house, and it becomes viable at least.

    i've kept a record in a word document on my PC since installing my 1kw electro heater,
    using an energy monitor so i know how much it's costing.

    my electric is currently 0.07p/kWh night rate 0.13p/kWh day rate.
    with most of the heating being done at night, i've averaged the rate to 0.10p/kWh for easy calculations of cost.

    September 2020 - April 2021 2060 kWh @ 0.10p/kWh = £206.10p on my old 1000 gallon pond
    with insulated pipework and filters but the pond had no insulation other than fitting 35mm polycarbonate over rocks around the edge.


    1 kw Electro Heater 2020 - 2021
    1000 gallon pond
    uncovered
    0 kWh at 10 am 30.09.20 @ 18C
    8 kWh at 10 am 04.10.20 @ 18C
    11 kWh at 10am 06.10.20 @ 18C
    67 kWh at 10am 18.10.20 @ 18C
    polycovers on
    107 kWh at 10am 26.10.20 @ 18C
    147 kWh at 10am 02.11.20 @ 16C
    220 kWh at 10am 20.11.20 @ 16C
    265 kWh at 10am 27.11.20 @ 16C
    302 kWh at 10am 01.12.20 @ 16C
    350 kWh at 10am 05.12.20 @ 16C
    395 kWh at 10am 10.12.20 @ 15C
    474 kWh at 10am 23.12.20 @ 15C
    509 kWh at 10am 26.12.20 @ 15C
    550 kWh at 10am 29.12.20 @ 15C
    650 kWh at 10am 07.01.21 @ 15C
    776 kWh at 10am 16.01.22 @ 15C
    900 kWh at 10am 26.01.21 @ 15C
    1481 kWh at 10am 18.03.21 @ 17C
    1830 kWh at 10am 25.04.21 @ 17C
    1860 kWh at 7pm 26.04.21 @17C
    1882 kWh at 7pm 27.04.21 @ 17C
    2061 kWh at 7pm 05.05.21 @ 17C
    Pond Dismantled,
    Koi in Temporary Pool.

    August 2021 - October 2021 382 kWh @ 0.10p/kWh = £38.20p on my new 2500 gallon pond
    with insulated pipework and filter house and 50mm celotex walls with flush fitting 35mm polycarbonate covers over coping stones

    1 kw Electro Heater 2021 - 2022
    2500 gallon pond
    uncovered
    0 kWh at 10am 28.08.21 @ 15C
    110 kWh at 10am 31.09.21 @ 20C
    154 kWh at 10am 05.09.21 @ 20C
    174 kWh at 10am 11.09.21 @ 21C
    185 kWh at 10am 13.09.21 @ 22C
    232 kWh at 10am 15.09.21 @ 23C
    232 kWh at 10am 16.09.21 @ 23C
    236 kWh at 10am 17.09.21 @ 24C
    246 kWh at 10am 18.09.21 @ 24C
    polycovers at night
    308 kWh at 10am 22.09.21 @ 24C
    324 kWh at 10am 26.09.21 @ 24C
    polycovers on
    359 kWh at 10am 28.09.21 @ 23C
    373 kWh at 10am 30.09.21 @ 23C
    382 kWh at 10am 01.10.21 @ 23C

    Direct electric heating isn't cheap,
    but factoring in total system costs with some thought, and moderate temperatures.
    does become viable if you are prepared to compromise a little.

    if you are also prepared to 'go Atsumi Naoki Japanese style'
    and heat to 20+C until the end of november and then give them a proper 3 month winter from december to end of february.
    with the heater set back to just 4C
    it cuts the biggest costs in the coldest months,
    and then you can raise temps above 12C avoiding 'aeromonas alley'

    as you can tell by the length of this post i may have too much time on my hands



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    you make me smile Dave does the pond not take up enough of your time.... looks like you best get out there and make some more modifications, is there anything else you need to do or are youi now completed?? cannot remember did you make / or have you got a shower installed ? what about a protein shower? ASHP??
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    you make me smile Dave does the pond not take up enough of your time.... looks like you best get out there and make some more modifications, is there anything else you need to do or are youi now completed?? cannot remember did you make / or have you got a shower installed ? what about a protein shower? ASHP??
    still got some small jobs to do, but i'm having a break from construction work for a bit.
    and the weather is crap atm...

    the pergola needs extending, as it doesn't cover the new pond at the house end now. (already bought the 10mm bronze polycarbonate extension piece when i got the 35mm piece for the pond.)
    some boxing in still needs cladding, and 2 sides of the filter house need insulating with 50mm celotex...
    then there is a room full of carp fishing gear to sell, as i'm not up to sitting on the bank of a lake for 3 days anymore lol!

    i've got a QK maxi shower holds about 275 litres of CSM, mine has 250 litres of CSM and is pretty full.
    don't need a protein skimmer atm, and have two protein shower pipes installed if it does start making any...
    Last edited by davethefish1; 02-10-2021 at 02:55 PM.

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai big h's Avatar
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    For 3 months last winter I used a 3 kw elecro set at 10. Covered in polycarbonate and then an aquosis cover and it cost me £78 total

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    For 3 months last winter I used a 3 kw elecro set at 10. Covered in polycarbonate and then an aquosis cover and it cost me £78 total
    not bad for just over £26 a month
    how many gallons?

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai big h's Avatar
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    2000 gallons.Ive previously heated to 8 but i have a big ochiba that lays on its side unless i go to 10

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    2000 gallons.Ive previously heated to 8 but i have a big ochiba that lays on its side unless i go to 10
    Sounds doable for my 2kw on 2k gal then only wanna hold it to stop the big fluxes

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    2000 gallons.Ive previously heated to 8 but i have a big ochiba that lays on its side unless i go to 10
    You wouldn't think 8C is too low for any koi,
    Unheated ponds must get a lot colder....

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Sounds doable for my 2kw on 2k gal then only wanna hold it to stop the big fluxes

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Thats the biggest problem going into spring,
    Get a few warm days the fish want food.
    Then you get a cold snap and snow!

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai big h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    You wouldn't think 8C is too low for any koi,
    Unheated ponds must get a lot colder....
    It’s maybe conning me It does happen though. I’ve experimented. It came from a pond that never went below 16 so that’s maybe why

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  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai big h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Sounds doable for my 2kw on 2k gal then only wanna hold it to stop the big fluxes

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    They like stability. It’s a small price to pay to know they are ok.

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  23. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    You wouldn't think 8C is too low for any koi,
    Unheated ponds must get a lot colder....

    I registered 0.3 on my thermometer in the pond last winter two days before the weather broke. I didn't dare look the next day which was even colder

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  25. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai big h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    I registered 0.3 on my thermometer in the pond last winter two days before the weather broke. I didn't dare look the next day which was even colder
    I certainly wouldnt let them go below 4 degrees.Thats pretty unsafe .Stick your hand in the water for 30 seconds.Poor sods have to live in that

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  27. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    They like stability. Itís a small price to pay to know they are ok.
    Learnt the hard way temp and ph crash was for to much for them last winter . I wouldn't let that happen again. To much heartbrake like .

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ajm; 02-10-2021 at 08:35 PM.
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  29. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    It’s maybe conning me It does happen though. I’ve experimented. It came from a pond that never went below 16 so that’s maybe why
    i can believe that if it's never experienced those kind of temperatures before...
    or might just take a very long time to acclimatise,
    but don't think i'd risk it either

  30. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    I registered 0.3 on my thermometer in the pond last winter two days before the weather broke. I didn't dare look the next day which was even colder
    WOW thats low.
    ....hoping that was at the surface.
    and it was warmer at the bottom with temperatrure inversion.

  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    WOW thats low.
    ....hoping that was at the surface.
    and it was warmer at the bottom with temperatrure inversion.

    I hope so too. Won't be happening again now thats for sure! Strangely enough they was more active at this temp than a few degrees warmer.

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    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai hippo's Avatar
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    I`m in the same position - I want to heat the pond , but not sure I can justify the outlay of around £2k + for a fancy ASHP .

    Last year we had a harsh winter , followed by a long cool spring , and my pond got as low as 3 degrees during the winter - not ideal .

    My plan , would be to keep the temps stable during the autumn months - say around 18 degrees , then during December , slowly drop the temp down to about 8 degrees . Keep it there during winter and then increment back up during March . I dont really want to cover the pond , unless it gets really cold , so I know this would incur extra costs .

    I just need to work out what is the most economical way of achieving this
    Colin

    2500 Gallon Fibreglass Pond
    Draco Solum 16 , 400l Bio Chamber

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    The cost of a good unit like the thermotec inverter .... including pipe work, valves and pump costs.....
    could get it nearer to £3K..
    £206.10p on my old 1000 gallon pond...... £38.20p on my new 2500 gallon pond
    Rounding your figures Dave suggests about £40 pm last winter on the old pond and £20 pm on the new, add a bit for the recent rises and say £400 per year or £200 a year more than an ashp by your guestimate of ashp running costs.

    The £3000 if not invested will pay for 15 years additional running costs of the Elecro!

    I have an ashp but zero insulation apart from covers so it was an easy decision for me but in your case I'd be inclined to run it this winter as is and review with winter figures for the new pond to hand next year.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  37. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo View Post
    I`m in the same position - I want to heat the pond , but not sure I can justify the outlay of around £2k + for a fancy ASHP .

    Last year we had a harsh winter , followed by a long cool spring , and my pond got as low as 3 degrees during the winter - not ideal .

    My plan , would be to keep the temps stable during the autumn months - say around 18 degrees , then during December , slowly drop the temp down to about 8 degrees . Keep it there during winter and then increment back up during March . I dont really want to cover the pond , unless it gets really cold , so I know this would incur extra costs .

    I just need to work out what is the most economical way of achieving this
    heating a pond without covers, is akin to heating your house with no roof...
    thats where you get horror stories of £4000 annual direct electric heating bills for koi ponds.

    it's only really viable if you don't give a crap about global warming.
    and run an ASHP uncovered for about the same electrical cost as direct electric with insulation and covers....

    direct electric is only just viable with good insulation, and not the ideal solution.
    Gas and ASHP are far better, but no greener if you do it just to run uncovered....
    Last edited by davethefish1; 03-10-2021 at 11:12 AM.

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