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Thread: Cover Designs ?

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Cover Designs ?

    I'm looking to sort a new cover for winter, as the one I made in a bit of a hurry last year isn't the best.

    What does everyone use as a frame for their polycarb sheets?

    I suppose timber is the obvious and easiest option?

    But was thinking of maybe looking at some other easily constructed material more modern and aesthetically pleasing?


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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    If your pond is square and you want to go down the easy option, no wooden frames required, but you do need something in middle of the pond to support the polycarb and avoid water pooling on it. This is how I did it:

    https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-pond-sec...eper-pond.html

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    If your pond is square and you want to go down the easy option, no wooden frames required, but you do need something in middle of the pond to support the polycarb and avoid water pooling on it. This is how I did it:

    https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-pond-sec...eper-pond.html
    Very nice

    More food for thought?

    The only issue for me would be the need to shape any cover around my bakki, but I do like the simplicity and the weight reduction not having a frame as such.
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I don’t use a frame for mine as I have 35mm polycarb. During the beast from the east I had to put concrete blocks on the corners though to stop the sheet blowing away. Now I have the jump guard supports I’m considering running a SS aircraft cable over the top so they can’t lift, or similar. I need to make some adjustments and retake the edges so will post a pic once I’ve cobbled something together. I don’t usually put my covers on until just before bonfire night if I’m going to cover at all (did not last winter, it was pretty mild).

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    I am getting upvc addon sections to stand on and to have the supporting bars screwed to, differing heights wall side to front to allow runoff... week that's what I imagine they will be, but by the time I get the saw out it may well change

    Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
    Last edited by dbs; 31-08-2021 at 08:56 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    I'll be getting these

    https://www.varicoltd.com/self-suppo...zing-bars.html

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    I'll be getting these

    https://www.varicoltd.com/self-suppo...zing-bars.html

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Very similar to the ones I got for my filterhouse roof, the spares I am using for winter covers, good job I brought 5 too many

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    I'll be getting these

    https://www.varicoltd.com/self-suppo...zing-bars.html

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Just a thought?

    Has anyone ever used these self supporting bars with actual glass double glazed units or is it just to heavy and dodgy over a pond?

    Its just you can get good used conservatory roof units cheaper than new polycarb?

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353452993...Condition=3000

    Even one here with a door for feeding

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185025927...Condition=3000
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I considered using the self supporting bars, but I don’t want anything made of aluminium or containing zinc over my pond so that rules all the ones I’ve seen out. Marine grade SS or food safe plastics all the way for me

    I am actually considering buying a SS hollow bar to provide some support across the middle- my pond is 5m wide so I need something that long that can resist deformity but not be too fat, not have sharp corners or be toxic. It’s very nice to have the window so I don’t have to worry too much about how easy this would be to open etc. I’m also plotting a funnel through the cover for the auto feeder- that would only really be necessary if I cover in the Autumn when still up to feeding temps.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I considered using the self supporting bars, but I don’t want anything made of aluminium or containing zinc over my pond so that rules all the ones I’ve seen out. Marine grade SS or food safe plastics all the way for me

    I am actually considering buying a SS hollow bar to provide some support across the middle- my pond is 5m wide so I need something that long that can resist deformity but not be too fat, not have sharp corners or be toxic. It’s very nice to have the window so I don’t have to worry too much about how easy this would be to open etc. I’m also plotting a funnel through the cover for the auto feeder- that would only really be necessary if I cover in the Autumn when still up to feeding temps.
    That's very interesting - that made me do more research and I found the following...

    3.2.3.1 Aluminium

    The toxicity of aluminium to fish depends to a large extent on the physico-chemical properties of the water and particularly on its pH. Aluminium is soluble at pH values below 6.0; a number of chemical species can be formed, the most toxic occurring in the pH range of 5.2 to 5.8. At higher pH values, aluminium is precipitated as the hydroxide, which can flocculate in the water. It is possible that freshly precipated aluminium (as a colloid) may be toxic; the fully flocculated hydroxide has a low toxicity similar to that of suspended solids in general.
    In toxicity tests, rainbow trout fry were exposed to different aluminium concentrations at a pH of 7.0. A concentration as low as 0.52 mg aluminium per litre was found to markedly reduce the growth of these fish. When an even lower concentration, 0.05 mg per litre, was tested no such adverse effect was found, so this concentration can be regarded as safe at this pH. A mass kill of maraena and peled fry, reared in a public supply water clarified by flocculated aluminium sulphate, is a practical example. The aluminium concentration of the water was up to 0.3 mg per litre and the pH value was between 7.0 and 7.5. All the fry of maraena and peled died within 10–14 days of hatching. It is not known whether this was due to ionic aluminium or to micro flocs affecting fish respiration.

    Not that I fully understand this but think my bars could be okay as not submersed ??

    Or maybe I put Gaffer tape on the back of them to stop condensation forming on them... Hmmmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    That's very interesting - that made me do more research and I found the following...

    3.2.3.1 Aluminium

    The toxicity of aluminium to fish depends to a large extent on the physico-chemical properties of the water and particularly on its pH. Aluminium is soluble at pH values below 6.0; a number of chemical species can be formed, the most toxic occurring in the pH range of 5.2 to 5.8. At higher pH values, aluminium is precipitated as the hydroxide, which can flocculate in the water. It is possible that freshly precipated aluminium (as a colloid) may be toxic; the fully flocculated hydroxide has a low toxicity similar to that of suspended solids in general.
    In toxicity tests, rainbow trout fry were exposed to different aluminium concentrations at a pH of 7.0. A concentration as low as 0.52 mg aluminium per litre was found to markedly reduce the growth of these fish. When an even lower concentration, 0.05 mg per litre, was tested no such adverse effect was found, so this concentration can be regarded as safe at this pH. A mass kill of maraena and peled fry, reared in a public supply water clarified by flocculated aluminium sulphate, is a practical example. The aluminium concentration of the water was up to 0.3 mg per litre and the pH value was between 7.0 and 7.5. All the fry of maraena and peled died within 10–14 days of hatching. It is not known whether this was due to ionic aluminium or to micro flocs affecting fish respiration.

    Not that I fully understand this but think my bars could be okay as not submersed ??

    Or maybe I put Gaffer tape on the back of them to stop condensation forming on them... Hmmmmm

    i wouldn't want to put bare aluminium over the pond,
    not anywhere it could be in close contact with the water through condensation or splashes.
    but if powder coated should be ok...

    i looked at getting some stainless steel T section to support my polycarbonate 1 piece flat side down would support the edges of 2 sheets,
    so with 4 sheets would only need 3 x 2.5 mtr strips. but the cost for something strong enough to span 2.5mtrs and wide enough lip to support the polycarbonate edge is ridiculous.

    so might go with strong and cheap like steel T section which i'd get powder coated...
    or some stainless flat strip and screw timber through it to make a T section....

    now i think about it..... i wonder if i could heat weld some 15mm poly or PVC to make a T section....
    Last edited by davethefish1; 02-09-2021 at 09:24 AM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i wouldn't want to put bare aluminium over the pond,
    not anywhere it could be in close contact with the water through condensation or splashes.
    but if powder coated should be ok...

    i looked at getting some stainless steel T section to support my polycarbonate 1 piece flat side down would support the edges of 2 sheets,
    so with 4 sheets would only need 3 x 2.5 mtr strips. but the cost for something strong enough to span 2.5mtrs and wide enough lip to support the polycarbonate edge is ridiculous.

    so might go with strong and cheap like steel T section which i'd get powder coated...
    Cheers Dave... but not the answer I wanted

    I need 2.7 m lengths which is a pain as these look ideal, folded steel so should have some strength but too short for me... spot on for you though ??

    Premtool 304 Grade Brushed Stainless Steel Flooring Transition T Bar 2.5m Length | Buy Tile Trim Online | Northants Tools

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Cheers Dave... but not the answer I wanted

    I need 2.7 m lengths which is a pain as these look ideal, folded steel so should have some strength but too short for me... spot on for you though ??

    Premtool 304 Grade Brushed Stainless Steel Flooring Transition T Bar 2.5m Length | Buy Tile Trim Online | Northants Tools
    not a bad price but i doubt would be strong enough over a 2.5mtr span, and the poly would only have a 12mm lip to sit on...

    i've had another thought though,
    i'm looking for some stainless flat sheet about 1-2mm thick bent into an 'L' profile like edge protectors for wall corners.
    to fix to both long edges of each poly sheet to make them self supporting over the span...
    just need them in 2.5 mtr lengths...

    https://trimtraders.co.uk/genesis-re...orseascon.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    not a bad price but i doubt would be strong enough over a 2.5mtr span, and the poly would only have a 12mm lip to sit on...

    i've had another thought though,
    i'm looking for some stainless flat sheet about 1-2mm thick bent into an 'L' profile like edge protectors for wall corners.
    to fix to both long edges of each poly sheet to make them self supporting over the span...
    just need them in 2.5 mtr lengths...

    https://trimtraders.co.uk/genesis-re...orseascon.html
    Hmmmmmm Decisions, decisions... can only blame Feline for putting a spanner in the works

    I'm looking at option 4 but looks an expensive hobby

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Hmmmmmm Decisions, decisions... can only blame Feline for putting a spanner in the works

    I'm looking at option 4 but looks an expensive hobby

    Just to throw another something into the mix

    Anyone actually ever looked into carbon fibre profiles? not as expensive as you might imagine now?
    Plus very strong/rigid and light weight?
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    Just to throw another something into the mix

    Anyone actually ever looked into carbon fibre profiles? not as expensive as you might imagine now?
    Plus very strong/rigid and light weight?
    Link ??


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    Yeah sorry to rain on your parade about the aluminium. You’re right that with the things not being submerged the leaching into the pond should be minimal, but I’m risk averse when it comes to metal ions with unknown effects even at low levels. There are people with galvanised wire structures over their ponds that have not reported problems from it- but I just wouldn’t go there myself. Especially as rain can be acidic.

    I’ve always found the underside of pond covers remains pretty wet the whole time with condensation, so definitely the possibility that any exposed metal could be in constant contact with water and drip in.

    If you are thinking of using any foams or rubbery construction materials in the construction, I would also exercise a bit of caution. Some of these things contain styrenes and some are/or are made from recycled plastic products containing god knows what from previous lives. They are not intended to have any contact with anything edible or potable so safety with aquatic life is not even thought about in the manufacture. Finding things that are food grade can be problematical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Yeah sorry to rain on your parade about the aluminium. You’re right that with the things not being submerged the leaching into the pond should be minimal, but I’m risk averse when it comes to metal ions with unknown effects even at low levels. There are people with galvanised wire structures over their ponds that have not reported problems from it- but I just wouldn’t go there myself. Especially as rain can be acidic.

    I’ve always found the underside of pond covers remains pretty wet the whole time with condensation, so definitely the possibility that any exposed metal could be in constant contact with water and drip in.

    If you are thinking of using any foams or rubbery construction materials in the construction, I would also exercise a bit of caution. Some of these things contain styrenes and some are/or are made from recycled plastic products containing god knows what from previous lives. They are not intended to have any contact with anything edible or potable so safety with aquatic life is not even thought about in the manufacture. Finding things that are food grade can be problematical.
    All great points and noted, thank you... I am looking at Stainless Steel Tee's now but crikey they are heavy and not cheap

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Link ??

    Found a couple of places doing carbon but struggling to find anywhere that advertises angle profiles longer than 2 metres. There was one place that said they could manufacture up to 5 metres long but no prices or details.

    There is 2.5 metre square tube available off the shelf?

    https://www.carbonfibretubes.co.uk/square-tubes/
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    Found a couple of places doing carbon but struggling to find anywhere that advertises angle profiles longer than 2 metres. There was one place that said they could manufacture up to 5 metres long but no prices or details.

    There is 2.5 metre square tube available off the shelf?

    https://www.carbonfibretubes.co.uk/square-tubes/
    Thanks mate, I am torn between trying to sort this or just plumping the the stainless T-bars, I just wish they made them a slightly thinner gauge as they are going to weigh a chunk for the 2.7m ones I want, can only find 5mm... OR which is my fav choice, covering my polycarbonate rails with something so no condensation on the aluminium... Sticky Back Plastic maybe
    Last edited by dbs; 06-09-2021 at 12:23 PM.

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