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Thread: Not again?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Not again?

    Last year was my worst ever as a koi keeper and I ended up losing most of my collection.

    Was watching my fish yesterday and noticed the lovely little Kohaku that I had from Gaz last autumn, was spitting food. He is usually the first up for grub and gets more than his fair share but was just hanging about, taking the occasional pellet but then spitting it out.

    Knowing how quickly things went pear shaped last year, I decided to catch a couple and get some scrapes. Caught the Kohaku and one of the old survivors, there was very little mucous available to scrape but I was able to get a little from both fish. Nothing showed up under the microscope, so not sure what's going on. Will scrape again in a few days time.

    The Kohaku is active, swimming with the rest of the tosai and I've not noticed any flashing. Have to admit to being worried though. If it goes the same way as last year, don't think I would have it in me to restock again and carry on.



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Sorry mate its horrible like I almost wrapped in this winter but just had to plod on. Your keeping a close aye mate you ll sort it. Fingers crossed its just these temp flucs they are crazy at the moment

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
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  5. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    Last year was my worst ever as a koi keeper and I ended up losing most of my collection.

    Was watching my fish yesterday and noticed the lovely little Kohaku that I had from Gaz last autumn, was spitting food. He is usually the first up for grub and gets more than his fair share but was just hanging about, taking the occasional pellet but then spitting it out.

    Knowing how quickly things went pear shaped last year, I decided to catch a couple and get some scrapes. Caught the Kohaku and one of the old survivors, there was very little mucous available to scrape but I was able to get a little from both fish. Nothing showed up under the microscope, so not sure what's going on. Will scrape again in a few days time.

    The Kohaku is active, swimming with the rest of the tosai and I've not noticed any flashing. Have to admit to being worried though. If it goes the same way as last year, don't think I would have it in me to restock again and carry on.
    I noticed mine were spitting food the year before last (2019) and fortunately I had been reading a thread along the same lines the day before and their issue was raised Nitrite, checked mine and sure enough I had raised Nitrite too. Coincidence or not I lowered my Nitrite level and they were back to eating normally again within a couple of days.

    Last year mine went off their food and after checking the water this time found Chlorine. Lowered the Chlorine with extra top ups using a tap water conditioner (didn't have any ready mixed up ST) and again they were eating normally within a couple of days.

    Maybe worth a try? Rule out the easy stuff first then look further if required maybe.

    Good luck
    ________________________________________________
    All we ever wanted was everything,
    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Cheers Frim. Checked ammonia, nitrite and ph, before doing scrapes. All good.

    Will check chlorine.

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  9. #5
    spitting food could be gill flukes, id suggest a rescrape but make sure you get decent scrapes behind the pecs, just behind the gills and if possible underneath the fish in the area where the V is where the gills meet

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  11. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    Cheers Frim. Checked ammonia, nitrite and ph, before doing scrapes. All good.

    Will check chlorine.
    Well was worth a mention as you didn't say you'd tested the water first
    ________________________________________________
    All we ever wanted was everything,
    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephuk View Post
    spitting food could be gill flukes, id suggest a rescrape but make sure you get decent scrapes behind the pecs, just behind the gills and if possible underneath the fish in the area where the V is where the gills meet
    I was expecting gill flukes but didn't spot any yesterday. I'll try again tomorrow.

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  15. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Is there anything else you've done to the pond, fish or garden in the last few days that could have had some effect on them in case you don't find any parasites?
    ________________________________________________
    All we ever wanted was everything,
    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Is there anything else you've done to the pond, fish or garden in the last few days that could have had some effect on them in case you don't find any parasites?
    Not that I can think of Frim. Usual water change early in the week and a dose of clay. It's only one fish that's spitting food (the one in my avatar), the others are all behaving normally, no flashing etc.

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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    Not that I can think of Frim. Usual water change early in the week and a dose of clay. It's only one fish that's spitting food (the one in my avatar), the others are all behaving normally, no flashing etc.
    OK at least you can rule something else out now.

    How long have you had that fish?
    ________________________________________________
    All we ever wanted was everything,
    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  21. #11
    My Kujaku (75cm+ now) was spitting out food yesterday, but none of the others were.
    He would repeatedly take food and then after a few seconds spit it all out.
    Water parameters were all fine.
    Naturally I assumed the worst, but decided to try something first.
    I opened a new sealed tub of wheatgerm food (the other had been opened in the Autumn) and would you believe it, he ate it like he was starving and spat out not one bit.
    And I though our cat was a fussy eater!
    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

  22. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Good call ukzero
    ________________________________________________
    All we ever wanted was everything,
    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  24. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    I noticed mine were spitting food the year before last (2019) and fortunately I had been reading a thread along the same lines the day before and their issue was raised Nitrite, checked mine and sure enough I had raised Nitrite too. Coincidence or not I lowered my Nitrite level and they were back to eating normally again within a couple of days.

    Last year mine went off their food and after checking the water this time found Chlorine. Lowered the Chlorine with extra top ups using a tap water conditioner (didn't have any ready mixed up ST) and again they were eating normally within a couple of days.

    Maybe worth a try? Rule out the easy stuff first then look further if required maybe.

    Good luck
    Frim is right, if you havent had time yet make sure you check (total) chlorine.

    two years ago my fish were under the weather for no apparent reason. Out of desperation (i use water purification cartridges) I tested and found chlorine.

    In summary, I found out that the water supply company had greatly increased the use of chloramine (due to none stop house building and associated water mains work) and my cartridges were becoming exhausted pdq.

    In case you don't know water purification cartridges typically can only absorb a small amount of chloramine compared to chlorine - mine have a likely capacity of 500 gallon capacity for chloramine vs 10000 gallons for chlorine.

    I now add dechlorinator whenever I water change and the fish are back to normal.

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  26. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterRhino View Post
    Frim is right, if you havent had time yet make sure you check (total) chlorine.

    two years ago my fish were under the weather for no apparent reason. Out of desperation (i use water purification cartridges) I tested and found chlorine.

    In summary, I found out that the water supply company had greatly increased the use of chloramine (due to none stop house building and associated water mains work) and my cartridges were becoming exhausted pdq.

    In case you don't know water purification cartridges typically can only absorb a small amount of chloramine compared to chlorine - mine have a likely capacity of 500 gallon capacity for chloramine vs 10000 gallons for chlorine.

    I now add dechlorinator whenever I water change and the fish are back to normal.
    Since COVID they have upped the chlorine dosage as well as if I run my kitchen tap which like most kitchen taps is mains cold water you can literally smell the chlorine gassing off and when I filled my 500 gallon QT system the chlorine smell in the garage the next day was horrendous

    Not saying that is your problem and hopefully it's just a food related issue which is the lesser of all the possible evils
    ________________________________________________
    All we ever wanted was everything,
    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  28. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    This is basically the exact situation I am in with my new Showa, waited all winter for it then the first 5-6 days it was happy as Larry, up on the surface fighting the other fish for food, then since this Wednesday it seems to be drifting about a bit slower and hanging in the water occasionally. When it comes to feeding, it has been a bit better today but it circles under the food for a little bit and was ignoring it completely at first then the last day or 2 it has taken pellets but seems to chew them for a while then spit them out although I think it is eating the odd one as well. It has got a bit more active at feeding time the last day or so but scrapes showed a dead tric on the Showa and nothing on the fish that showed a tric and fluke before the new one arrived. I noticed a small white dot on one gill raker which looked a bit uncomfortable so wonder if its had something go through its gills and cause discomfort but having spoken to Queni Koi where I got it from, they seemed pretty lost as to what it could be other than maybe the temperature fluctuations and new environment.
    I know how you're feeling Gmac, given the shite we went through with our ponds last year, if I see any kind of unusual behaviour I instantly think the worst and it's bloody awful. Strangely I haven't actually seen any flash for a good week or two which is one positive. Need to get some chlorine testing bits to rule that out although overdosing with ST so god knows.
    Lets hope its just a fish being a bit of a diva with their food.

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  30. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Sorry mate its horrible like I almost wrapped in this winter but just had to plod on. Your keeping a close aye mate you ll sort it. Fingers crossed its just these temp flucs they are crazy at the moment

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Yep, got my ASHP set at 15 and this week its been as low as 13.8 and today it went up to 15.7, probably be around 13.8 again in morning, as its gone quite cold here tonight, probably ideal for would be parasites.

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  32. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukzero View Post
    My Kujaku (75cm+ now) was spitting out food yesterday, but none of the others were.
    He would repeatedly take food and then after a few seconds spit it all out.
    Water parameters were all fine.
    Naturally I assumed the worst, but decided to try something first.
    I opened a new sealed tub of wheatgerm food (the other had been opened in the Autumn) and would you believe it, he ate it like he was starving and spat out not one bit.
    And I though our cat was a fussy eater!
    I feed mine a variety of different pellets, Coppens health 6mm, Top Koi 3mm, OSW 6mm, Coppens Wheatgerm 3mm and Byers Farm Tosai 3mm, most will eat them.

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  34. #18
    And keeping fish was meant to be relaxing Not again? seems we get nothing but problemsNot again?
    My Showa I got last year has been showing strange behaviour to the point I’m surprised it’s still alive, it’s been spending more time upside down Not again?Not again?
    Hope you get it sortedNot again?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  36. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    This is basically the exact situation I am in with my new Showa, waited all winter for it then the first 5-6 days it was happy as Larry, up on the surface fighting the other fish for food, then since this Wednesday it seems to be drifting about a bit slower and hanging in the water occasionally. When it comes to feeding, it has been a bit better today but it circles under the food for a little bit and was ignoring it completely at first then the last day or 2 it has taken pellets but seems to chew them for a while then spit them out although I think it is eating the odd one as well. It has got a bit more active at feeding time the last day or so but scrapes showed a dead tric on the Showa and nothing on the fish that showed a tric and fluke before the new one arrived. I noticed a small white dot on one gill raker which looked a bit uncomfortable so wonder if its had something go through its gills and cause discomfort but having spoken to Queni Koi where I got it from, they seemed pretty lost as to what it could be other than maybe the temperature fluctuations and new environment.
    I know how you're feeling Gmac, given the shite we went through with our ponds last year, if I see any kind of unusual behaviour I instantly think the worst and it's bloody awful. Strangely I haven't actually seen any flash for a good week or two which is one positive. Need to get some chlorine testing bits to rule that out although overdosing with ST so god knows.
    Lets hope its just a fish being a bit of a diva with their food.
    When you do water changes, can you just go straight from the tap and then just add ST?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  38. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D’ster View Post
    When you do water changes, can you just go straight from the tap and then just add ST?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    buy and fit a big blue carbon filter with a pre filter, better all round, the out lay in cost will repay itself, the 4ft one

    cotswoldkoi.co.uk/product/pro-line-cylinder-purifiers

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