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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai samp09's Avatar
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    Average Koi growth

    Whilst a lot of us probably dream of growing some nice 90-100cm Koi, What is a good average size to expect from most average koi in a unheated pond? I am not talking about with jumbo Tosai, just for example a 25cm Tosai grown without a grow on in a normal pond with a good healthy environment. I know there is plenty of factors that come in with koi but I am only thinking of a ballpark average sort of size. More of a kind of target I guess. Would it be unrealistic to expect most koi to get to 60+cm? I have 2 currently that are around 50cm coming into sansai this year but also likely males so thinking if I could see them make 65-70cm in the next couple of years I would be pleased.



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  3. #2
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Pretty much any koi can make 60cm of you feed it enough and keep it long enough in a decent sized pond.
    If you don’t buy koi with the right genetics, your water quality isn’t right, or your feeding regime isn’t right though then you will struggle to get a koi over 65cm.

    Lots of people post on forums and Facebook groups about their koi being 70cm, 80cm, 90cm + but a lot of the time those are estimates not actual measuring bowl lengths. If you’ve ever been to a koi show though and seen the actual jumbo category specimens, you can tell from the photo straight away when somebody is exaggerating

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Wain's Avatar
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    Hahahaha I wonder is it only men that exaggerate the size of their . . . KOI
    1000 gal
    2 x Hozelock 6000ltr 9W UV
    Allpond Spin Filter 8000 11W UV
    Blagdon pond oxy 640 ltr/hr

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Pretty much any koi can make 60cm of you feed it enough and keep it long enough in a decent sized pond.
    If you don’t buy koi with the right genetics, your water quality isn’t right, or your feeding regime isn’t right though then you will struggle to get a koi over 65cm.

    Lots of people post on forums and Facebook groups about their koi being 70cm, 80cm, 90cm + but a lot of the time those are estimates not actual measuring bowl lengths. If you’ve ever been to a koi show though and seen the actual jumbo category specimens, you can tell from the photo straight away when somebody is exaggerating
    Yes I have seen a couple of 90cm+ chags (of course!) in shops and they are simply mind blowing. The angler in me wants to know the weight but they are truly huge fish in a pond. I am thinking of getting an auto feeder once we get into early summer and the filter is ready to rock as all my koi are pre spawning age anyway so best to get them growing as much as possible but I would love a pond full of 70-80cm fish with the occasional 150cm lock ness monster of a Showa that eats herons!

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  9. #5
    Member Rank = Nisai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    There are three things I would like to talk to you about.

    1. Firstly, how to keep them for growth.
    In the end it depends on the amount of food. You guys don't know how much water we feed them in the summer period, how incredible the water temperature is and how much we feed them. There have been many so called pioneers of KOI, but none of them have seen or experienced the truth. This is why it has always been thought in the UK and Europe that it is better to grow at an average water temperature all year round, but this is quite wrong. In the case of the ultimate KOI, where large size is desired, it is better to provide a thorough seasonality, so that the fish can grow and rest and eventually become large. For those types of KOI, we only feed them during the five months of summer. I think such a method is more common. This year Mr. Snaden is going to start keeping KOI in Japan in his own pond. I hope he will report to us about his summer rearing methods, which you have never heard of before.

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I've been having similar thoughts. Wouldn't it be great to have a few lumps in the pond.

    I have 2 fish (secondhand) that are both male and both around 60cm when I bought them in March last year. One is a marudo chag and the other izyumia yamabuki so I think they both have potential to grow big if conditions were perfect.

    Tbh I've not seen them grow much, if at all, even though they're both good feeders. This could be in part due to nps last year and also parasites will probably have slowed them growing. But now nps has been resolved and I'm hoping to eradicate the last of any parasites this spring, I'm slightly more hopeful for this year.

    I suspect that they have potential to get much bigger, the yamabuki especially as it is one long lean fish. But I also suspect I won't see much of that growth unless I heat over the summer. And I think that's the bottom line, you realistically need to heat if you want them to keep going strong past the 60cm mark.

    I think the other issue, is the stocking density of the pond. I find I want to have loads of varieties of koi in my pond. But in doing that I know I'm also reducing my chances of growing any to a decent size. So I think at some point I'll need to reduce how many fish I have, but the issue is by the time I do that, the fish will all be a few years old and I will have missed the main growing time for the fish. Average Koi growth

    How I see in fishing terms, a 60cm fish is likely to be an upper double and maybe into the 20's if it fills out. For example my chag was 17lb when it went in and the yamabuki was 15lb - I couldn't resist weighing it :-D. But an 80cm fish is gonna be an upper 30lb or 40lber if it is filled out. And as you know pretty much every fishing lake has doubles in, but not all have 40lbers.

    The other issue is how well they feed. Some are greedy pigs and others are just reluctant to feed heavily. For example I have a male benigoi that I had high hopes for. But it just does not want feed off the surface. It eats a few sinking pellets but even then it's not an aggressive feeder. Im presuming that fish will just not grow, regardless of the water, temperature or genetics. Unfortunately you only usually discover whether a fish is a good feeder after you have bought it, which is a bit late if it's not.

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    There are three things I would like to talk to you about.

    1. Firstly, how to keep them for growth.
    In the end it depends on the amount of food. You guys don't know how much water we feed them in the summer period, how incredible the water temperature is and how much we feed them. There have been many so called pioneers of KOI, but none of them have seen or experienced the truth. This is why it has always been thought in the UK and Europe that it is better to grow at an average water temperature all year round, but this is quite wrong. In the case of the ultimate KOI, where large size is desired, it is better to provide a thorough seasonality, so that the fish can grow and rest and eventually become large. For those types of KOI, we only feed them during the five months of summer. I think such a method is more common. This year Mr. Snaden is going to start keeping KOI in Japan in his own pond. I hope he will report to us about his summer rearing methods, which you have never heard of before.
    I believe you may be mis informed as to how we feed in the UK, from my limited experience but experience none the less, people in the UK feed minimally if at all through winter, then late spring to the end of summer/autumn time they feed heavily when the water temperature is a good 20+ degrees, which is exactly how you have explained the Japanese feed. The only people who may be different is those who are heated who will generally reduce the temperature to 15 degrees thereabouts or lower and feed more sparingly through winter, or those who keep a high temperature and feed heavy all year round to try and squeeze as much size out as possible.

    I know what you mean Tom, when I first got my Karashigoi (thought it was a chagoi as back then I thought all duller full scaled koi were chagoi) it fed a lot and I thought it would pile the size on but then had all the issues and by August time it had only grown a few cm, from January to May it was only 1cm bigger at 20cm, but after the refill of the pond it managed to grow to 29.5cm and I didn't bother taking note of the size when I done the refill as it hadn't grown. Just shows how something unbalanced in the pond can have an adverse affect on the growth. For a while that fish went from living on the top regardless of the temp and happy to eat to barely eating for months then suddenly got its appetite back. My goshiki was 44cm when I brought it on May 9th, but by October 18th it was 48cm, Goshiki are slower growers I believe however I feel I may have hit 50cm or more on a normal year.

    With all this progress, I barely fed compared to most as I had so many issues I was scared to upset the water parameters as they was all coming back fine so didn't want to encourage any more issues but hopefully this year I can really let them have it and get some promising growth. If I have 3 koi and my mirror near 60cm this year I will be chuffed. My Isa Showa that will be delivered when the temp is suitable was 43cm when measured in November at Queni so hopefully has added a little on and my Goshiki and Asagi are 48cm & 50cm when last measured in October, the mirror at 57cm so I feel I have a chance!

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  15. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Gazkoi's Avatar
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    IMHO growing Koi successfully is a combination of the following:

    Genetics - if these are not in the line then it’s unlikely to beat average
    Good water - goes without saying.. husbandry and filtration are paramount
    Temperature- koi prefer warmer temps
    Good food - good nutrition is essential. A Ferrari won’t run on water etc..
    Luck - it needs to stay alive... no jumping out, predators, unexplained, parasites etc..

    Simples

    Cheers

    Gaz
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Eco’s, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai samp09's Avatar
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    Yeah I agree with you there Gaz, What would you say average growth is though?

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  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi mate,

    Personally, I would say it is not uncommon for many koi in most suitable ponds to reach 24 inches over time.

    cheers

    Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    Yeah I agree with you there Gaz, What would you say average growth is though?
    4,100 gallon pond, infinity window, duratec heater, aerated BD, 3 bakki showers full of BHM, amalgam UV, 3 Blue Eco’s, construction skimmer, trickle in/out, Oase Profi Drum and some very spoilt koi.

    3 separate grow on vats, one 1,600 gallon QT and a customer first business

    www.aurorakoi.co.uk

    www.facebook.com/aurorakoiuk

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