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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    How can we get people to stop calling it GOROMO?

    I'm pointing out that it's strange that it's called GOROMO by itself on YouTube and everywhere else.


    Is it difficult to change something that has already been established?
    Should we just leave it alone, even if it's wrong?



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Can you elaborate with examples?


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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Can you elaborate with examples?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You need to understand the characteristics of the Japanese language.
    https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/rendaku/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtpZzbvh5pY

    ●We Japanese do not use the name GOROMO at all.
    In fact, we feel uncomfortable about the fact that many of these names have become popular due to misunderstanding.
    This is because there is no such thing as GOROMO in Japanese.

    There are several types of KOROMO, for example, classified in our KOI SHOW.
    藍ai(Indigo)+衣koromo(Clothing/Robed)= 藍衣 aigoromo not aikoromo 
    墨sumi(Ink)+衣koromo(Clothing/Robed= 墨衣 sumigoromo not sumikoromo 
    葡萄budo(Grape)+衣koromo(Clothing/Robed= 葡萄衣 budogoromo not budokoromo 
    and
    衣koromo(Clothing/Robed+三色sanke(3coloured )= 衣三色 koromosanke not goromosanke
    衣koromo(Clothing/Robed+昭和showa(Shōwa (1926–1989) )= 衣昭和 koromoshowa not goromoshowa

    To give the most obvious example...
    錦nishiki(A fine weave with a variety of yarn patterns) + 鯉koi (carp) =錦鯉nishikigoi not nishikikoi
    真ma (the real)+ 鯉koi (carp) =真鯉magoi (common carp) not makoi
    If you continue to call GOROMO alone, KOI must also be called GOI???
    In any case, this is very very weird.

    藍(あい)+衣(ころも)=藍衣(あいごろも) aigoromo
    錦(にしき)+鯉(こい)=錦鯉(にしきごい) nishikigoi
    回転(かいてん)+寿司(すし)=回転
    寿司(かいてんずし)kaitenzushi
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhE59tfVgrY
    ※What you call GOROMO is like calling Japanese SUSHI into ZUSHI. See this woman? She is able to change SUSHI to ZUSHI only when other words come first. It's clear that she is quite familiar with the Japanese language. I'm sure it's difficult for those of us who are involved in KOI to do this, but even if it's difficult for people in other countries, I hope that KOI lovers in the UK can use it in this way!
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 08-02-2021 at 01:59 AM.

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    I believe this is the correct notation.
    variety - KOROMO | Zen Nippon Airinkai
    As he said, we are naturally able to distinguish between Koromo and AI-Goromo.
    https://youtu.be/Lm01GVtsGPo?t=25
    ※I would translate this part more faithfully as follows...
    "What we sell as our signature product is collectively known as KOROMO, or in our case AI-GOROMO."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nDOP--mD24

    Some British people are well aware of the difference, but in other European countries, for example, names like GOROMO SANKE and GOROMO SHOWA are widespread and do not exist.
    Goshiki - Goromo - Yoshikigoi
    https://pro-koi.nl/koi/
    https://kanokoi.com/ca-koi-goromo

    It's difficult to explain to these people the circumstances of the special changes in Japanese, isn't it? Do we have to overlook this?
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 07-03-2021 at 01:29 PM.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing this information, it makes me wonder where the Goromo name originates from if it is not Japanese.

    Koromo - (koh ROH moh) Translates to 'robed', referring to a koi that has a white base color, overlaid by red patterns with reticulation. A koi show class including Ai -Goromo, Sumi Goromo, Budo Sanke, Goshiki, Koromo Sanke and Koromo Showa.

    Koromozumi - (koh ROH moh ZOO mee) Sumi Goromo netted sumi


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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai hippo's Avatar
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    Whatever the name is , my Mrs has been pestering me for ages to get one , as its her favourite variety .

    She calls it a GERONIMO , though
    Colin

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  12. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo View Post
    She calls it a GERONIMO , though
    Brilliant How can we get people to stop calling it GOROMO?


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  14. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo View Post
    Whatever the name is , my Mrs has been pestering me for ages to get one , as its her favourite variety .

    She calls it a GERONIMO , though
    Guess you don’t go to any cowboy koi dealers then

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  16. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    I've never paid attention to it before, but there's a lot of RENDAKU about KOI terms!
    UROKO(scale)+KIWA(edge)=UROKOGIWA means Back border of the pattern
    MAE(front)+SASI(stab)=MAEZASHI means Forward border of the pattern
    KASANE(pile up)+SUMI(ink)= KASANEZUMI means Sumi on the HI pattern
    MOTO(at hand)+KURO(black)=MOTOGURO means Sumi gathered at the base of Showa's hand fin
    They all have a change in the second pronunciation.
    There may be many more if we look for...

    HA(wing)+SHIRO'(white)=HAJIRO means KOI variety HAJIRO
    OYA(parent)+HONE(bone)=OYABONE means main bone of pectoral fin
    USU(low)+KAI(keeping)=USUGAI means keeping in low density
    MITSU(high density)+KAI(keeping)=MITSUGAI means keeping in high density
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 11-02-2021 at 10:41 PM.

  17. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    I guess that HAJIRO was developed from MAGOI (common carp) into KARASUGOI (jet black), and only the tips of the fins are white. We call it HAJIRO because The reason is that we can imagine the intention of 羽ha(wing)+白shiro(white)= 羽白 hajiro just by looking at the white of the wings.

    Also, when I was in the UK, the KOI in 2SAI was called NISSAI, not NISAI. I told someone about it and they were very unhappy about it. I told him about it, but he was very reluctant to admit the mistake, because most of his publications were labeled as NISSAI. But when I told various people that it was a mistake, the person seemed to be in a bad mood, and I also became very uncomfortable, so I thought it was no use and left it alone, but after a long time, I searched various things and found that almost everyone now calls it correct NISA now. (A few French dealer still call it "NISSAI", but maybe they call it that because it's a French word??)

    Also, the KOI ages listed by the Dutch dealers you know so well are so bad: TOSAI, NISAI, SANSAI and YONSAI are correct, but everything after that is wrong. It's a shame, because it's easy to find out with a little research. How can you be an expert on KOI with that? If you can't teach it properly, then don't mention it, and I shudder to think that he will hate me again.
    https://web-japan.org/kidsweb/langua...esson5_02.html
    This is the correct one (because tosai is yerling).
    Please compare it with his, you'll see how carelessly he uses Japanese.

    However, this issue of GOROMO has already been defined in certain publications and descriptions of the type of KOI. This too could be corrected correctly if left alone, but people don't realize that GOROMO is wrong when it is called AI-GOROMO, do they? Also, the pronunciation of GOROMO may sound nice to you, but when we Japanese hear it, we're like, "What the hell? or ridicule it as a basic mistake that only a foreigner would make. We don't like that, so we don't want you to call KOROMO GOROMO, we want you to just call the second of the two words GOROMO. I'm not a perfectionist by any means but Is that too much to ask?

  18. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    calling a koromo, a goromo, is probably a simple translation error that happened years ago, when little was known about japanese nomenclature.

    i would imagine the japanese dialect and the way they pronounce 'koromo', might sound like 'goromo' to an english ear...

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  20. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippo View Post
    Whatever the name is , my Mrs has been pestering me for ages to get one , as its her favourite variety .

    She calls it a GERONIMO , though
    Is that because it keeps jumping out of the pond
    ________________________________________________
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