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Thread: Stable PH

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Stable PH

    I have tested my water every 3-4 days using the API master kit since pond start up middle of last year and this has always shows my PH at what reads between 7.5 -8.0.

    Fingers crossed, touch wood etc, as of yet no crashes, spikes.

    This has been the same on every test for months and so I haven't tried to alter things.

    Also I have read Koi prefer a slightly higher PH anyway ?

    I have just installed Seneye and this is reading the PH as averaging 8.40 but ranging from 8.39 > 8.42.

    Questions is....

    Although on the high side the PH is I would say stable?
    So do I stick with the stable PH or start messing with the water and try to reduce this back to say a PH of 7.5?

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    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
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    I think I'd be inclined to keep an eye on it seeing as it seems stable, whilst on the higher side it is within bounds, does the API test still show it at the same levels as previously tested?

    One thing I would do is check is PH of source water and see if that is similar, also for anything that could be leeching (cement products etc). Then think about it from there.

  3. #3
    my experience with a new pond was that Ph started quite high at 8.4, so like yours. I was advised that it was a bit high but as the pond matured would drop naturally . I left it and this was exactly what happened and now stable at 7.5.

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    I think I'd be inclined to keep an eye on it seeing as it seems stable, whilst on the higher side it is within bounds, does the API test still show it at the same levels as previously tested?

    One thing I would do is check is PH of source water and see if that is similar, also for anything that could be leeching (cement products etc). Then think about it from there.
    Hi

    Yes, API still reads the same.
    I do have a trickle in running from a big blue dechlorinator.
    Tap water is ok at 7 but I haven't checked the water direct from the dechlorinator?

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
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    If the API test is still the same and you have had no problem to now I'd personally just sit on it and check it remains stable. You dont have any fresh cement products round the pond that could be leeching anything in to raise the PH do you? I'd generally expect your filter to lower the PH over time so it just seems a little odd it is higher than your source.

    Is the KH checking out ok?

    Anyway, main thing in my mind is to be in the acceptable zone which you are, and for the PH to remain stable. I'd keep checking and keep on with usual weekly water changes and trickle in and see how it goes personally.

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Hi ruffers.
    You need to leave your tap water overnight in an open container before checking the pH because it tends to come out of the tap with a high dissolved CO2 level which makes it temporarily more acidic.
    That’s why peoples pond pH always tends to seem higher than the supply.

    Any stable pH between 6.8 and 8.5 is suitable for koi. So being at the high end of that is not a problem so long as it’s not swinging up above 8.5 on a hot summers afternoon when the algae are photosynthesising.

    There are a couple of reasons why some koi keepers prefer to run at a lower pH
    • Ammonia is more toxic at a higher pH so you have less wiggle room to push feeding in the warmer growth months
    • hard water is generally believed to be worse for their skin, and might also have an impact of growth potential if you’re going for jumbo monsters from stock with the genetic potential for it. (However, sumi tends to develop better in harder water, so it’s not that straightforward a decision.)

    The big problem is that running a lower pH is not easy to achieve. You can let the filters ‘consume’ some of your KH in summer and not change enough water to put it back up again, thus reducing your pH a bit. Or invest in RO which is expensive to set up and needs a lot of monitoring and wastes a lot of water.

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Hi ruffers.
    You need to leave your tap water overnight in an open container before checking the pH because it tends to come out of the tap with a high dissolved CO2 level which makes it temporarily more acidic.
    That’s why peoples pond pH always tends to seem higher than the supply.

    Any stable pH between 6.8 and 8.5 is suitable for koi. So being at the high end of that is not a problem so long as it’s not swinging up above 8.5 on a hot summers afternoon when the algae are photosynthesising.

    There are a couple of reasons why some koi keepers prefer to run at a lower pH
    • Ammonia is more toxic at a higher pH so you have less wiggle room to push feeding in the warmer growth months
    • hard water is generally believed to be worse for their skin, and might also have an impact of growth potential if you’re going for jumbo monsters from stock with the genetic potential for it. (However, sumi tends to develop better in harder water, so it’s not that straightforward a decision.)

    The big problem is that running a lower pH is not easy to achieve. You can let the filters ‘consume’ some of your KH in summer and not change enough water to put it back up again, thus reducing your pH a bit. Or invest in RO which is expensive to set up and needs a lot of monitoring and wastes a lot of water.

    Thanks Feline,

    I didn't know about the tap water test. I will re-test overnight and see how things compare.
    I have just checked United Utilties Web site and they have a really in depth breakdown of the water in our area.
    I.e. where it is sourced (which in our case is from the River Dee and all the chemical and levels present. (See Attached)

    United Utilities - Water Quality Search Results.pdf
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Just thought I'd re-start this thread with a bit of an update on my on going pH issues.

    I don't know if I'm just getting a bit obsessed with pH but its driving me round the twist at the moment and the Seneye isn't helping.....

    Every monthly Seneye slide change seems to give me different readings. Even when parameter readings are trimmed and things have settled after a couple of days.

    At present I am testing my water every day, morning and evening using the API Pondmaster Kit and an electronic tester, just to double check everything and my Seneye as I am suffering with a constantly high pH especially late afternoon which I know is the time when reading are at there highest.

    Currently Seneye and electronic readings of around 8.3-8.4 at their lowest in the morning and up to 8.7-8.8 at the highest point in the late afternoon/evening.

    The API test shows 8.0 in the morning and up 9.0 in the evening.
    I've ordered the API freshwater kit as it has the added high range pH test included just for a bit more reassurance.

    Nothing cement based around the pond so I can only put the high readings down to the natural algae photosynthesis and the warmer temperatures?

    Fresh tap water is coming in at just over 7.0

    Tap water left over night before testing is looking exactly the same as the pond water using API test, first thing in the morning. approx. 8.0 (see photos)

    I have been doing small water changes of an evening to help when things look like they may exceed the 8.8. But obviously what I'm adding/changing will be back at 8.3 after a few hours

    So question is do I stop worrying, hope it doesn't go any higher, monitor and let it run at between 8.3 > 8.8 which is although on the high side is reasonably stable or start looking at reducing slightly and controlling with a pH reducing additive/treatment?


    These are the test results at 07.30 this morning after a small 5% water change last evening and using a 12hr old tap water sample.

    12 hour old tap water is in the left hand test tube & pond water in the right.

    Electronic tester tap water 8.37 pond water 8.51

    Seneye reading at 09.45hrs pH at 8.46 after trim adjustment so a bit later 09.45 this morning.










    Last edited by Ruffers22; 15-06-2021 at 03:01 PM.

  12. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i had issues with Ph on my pond which i put down to the pond not being properly mature < 2years old.
    and pond wall algae in a relatively small volume of water (1000gallons)

    larger deeper ponds have a higher buffering capacity against ph swings. due to the relative surface area vs volume.

    my work around was to erect a pergola with a 10mm bronze polycarbonate roof plus an extra shadesail underneath in summer shading the pond.
    this, plus the pond maturing over time reduced my ph from 7.9-8.1
    down to 7.5 - 7.6


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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i had issues with Ph on my pond which i put down to the pond not being properly mature < 2years old.
    and pond wall algae in a relatively small volume of water (1000gallons)

    larger deeper ponds have a higher buffering capacity against ph swings. due to the relative surface area vs volume.

    my work around was to erect a pergola with a 10mm bronze polycarbonate roof plus an extra shadesail underneath in summer shading the pond.
    this, plus the pond maturing over time reduced my ph from 7.9-8.1
    down to 7.5 - 7.6

    Hi Dave,

    I was thinking about pergola as next years project and have actually bought a sail shade, but held off putting it up, as I think the algae I have may be that horrible slimy stuff Phormidium? which I believe prefers the shade ?

    The pond has had a couple of doses of Algisin this year already. Got rid of the blanket weed that was starting to appear early on, but doesn't seem to shift the slimy stuff that took its place.

    The other pond parameters are pretty good except for Nitrate which is unfortunately naturally high straight from the tap.

    This obviously helps any algae especially when using trickle in/out and carrying out water changes for the pH problem?

    Its looking like a lot of smaller issues ie. summer, higher feeding rates, algae, naturally hard and nitrate rich water adding up to make the problem worse and I need to try and reduce the affect of each individually?

    By the way can you see the photos ok in the last post ? I cant see them?
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    no mate invalid attachment,
    i use this site now easier and quicker to upload,
    plus you can upload a bunch of pictures and copy and paste the lot in forum code straight in.
    https://postimages.org/

    i try to avoid using chemicals to control algae,
    learning from keeping marine reef tanks, if you have nutrients in the water and kill the higher (more evolved green algaes)
    you just get lower (less evolved) algae like slime algae's and other more primitive species using the nutrients...

    and try to rely on reducing or export nutrients,
    water changes, keep the pond and mechanical filters as physically clean as possible (reducing production of nitrates),
    limiting light, and physical removal (farming).

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  17. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    no mate invalid attachment,
    i use this site now easier and quicker to upload,
    plus you can upload a bunch of pictures and copy and paste the lot in forum code straight in.
    https://postimages.org/

    i try to avoid using chemicals to control algae,
    learning from keeping marine reef tanks, if you have nutrients in the water and kill the higher (more evolved green algaes)
    you just get lower (less evolved) algae like slime algae's and other more primitive species using the nutrients...

    and try to rely on reducing or export nutrients,
    water changes, keep the pond and mechanical filters as physically clean as possible (reducing production of nitrates),
    limiting light, and physical removal (farming).

    Try again thanks for the link .

    Last edited by Ruffers22; 15-06-2021 at 02:59 PM.
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i don't know how accurate the seneye's ph monitor is, how do you calibrate it?
    does it come with ph calibration solutions?
    as ph calibration can vary with temperature...

    i've found the palin test kits, to be the easiest to use and most accurate to read for ph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i don't know how accurate the seneye's ph monitor is, how do you calibrate it?
    does it come with ph calibration solutions?
    as ph calibration can vary with temperature...

    I've found the palin test kits, to be the easiest to use and most accurate to read for ph.

    When you install a new Seneye slide the pH seems to vary a little on each slide every month .
    But usually once settled after 48hrs or so you can adjust or trim the value reading slightly to match any other test results. Which is what I have been doing using the API and electronic tester which I calibrate using a buffer solution.
    Its a case of belt and braces and once set its usually pretty accurate and easy just to keep an eye on via the app.

    What palin tester do you use?
    I think I might look into one if they are most accurate.
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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  21. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    What palin tester do you use?
    I think I might look into one if they are most accurate.
    when i say most accurate i mean in very simple terms of consistency,
    they read the same from packet to packet, and match a freshly calibrated ph monitor. when API and other kits i've used can vary.

    they're cheap too being simple pool test kits


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pooltester-...87KDJJMRDW25NQ

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