Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62

Thread: Condensation

  1. #1

    Condensation

    What do others do to prevent , avoid , remove condensation in their sheds / grow on rooms etc.

    I've a quarantine tank 300 gallons and a grow on tank 120 gallons both heated 15 degrees and 22 degrees and getting lots of condensation throughout the shed . Its about 14 feet by 8 feet .
    One window slightly ajar . Walls insulated but not the roof.


    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk



  2. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    1,425
    Thanks / Likes
    2628
    It's all about getting the right balance of temp, insulation and ventilation.
    If I were setting up a filter room/grow on, then I would plan to insulate roof, walls and floor. Install a heat source, along with a small through the wall heat exchange unit.

  4. Thanks Graeme, arceye, freddyboy, Djbanger Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Currently all that warm moist air coming from your quarantine and grow on will condense on anything cooler than it, just like it does in the home on windows and cold corner walls. Its worth remembering that warm air holds more moisture than cold air so ventilation to allow moisture laden air out and less humid air in coupled to insulation of anything cooler than the general indoor air temp is perhaps one way forward.
    If you don't mind the running cost a dehumidifier could help, but I'd imagine it will be working hard given the environment it will be in.

  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    1,425
    Thanks / Likes
    2628
    Think you're right, an industrial sized dehumidifier/building drier would be needed in that environment and they are costly to run.

  7. Thanks arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  8. #5
    When building an indoor swimming pool - not as irrelevant as it sounds - you have relatively very warm water compared with a ambient room temperature, condensation is something that can't be ignored.
    Simply, if the room surfaces are at a lower temperature than the water you can get condensation. If the actual air temperature is less than the water temperature can get visible mist.
    In a swimming pool at 28C you can begin to see the problem - which is why dehumidification is a thing here.

    There are several suggestions I could make in your case:
    1. I won't suggest continued extra ventilation in this instance because at this time of year the outside air can be both cold and humid - not what you want in there.
    2. Properly insulate the shed (at least the roof and walls) with no gaps. This will bring the shed ambient temperature up nearer to water temperature and reduce amount of condensation. The water will be a large heat store and will be heating the shed anyway.
    3. Cover any "open water". I presume you have air pumps/circulation so water O2 levels shouldn't be a problem - this will reduce evaporation (which supplies the a lot of extra water vapour to condense).
    4. Consider a shed heater for when it gets really cold - again to reduce differential between water/shed temp.
    5. You could consider dehumidying the air - but that will be an uphill battle and so unless money is no object I'd not bother with this.

    I hope this has been of use.
    Last edited by Ukzero; 28-11-2020 at 12:08 PM.
    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

  9. Thanks Graeme, Dudley, D’ster Thanked / Liked this Post
  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Also, would covering the quarantine and grow on with polycarb help, I know there would have to be some open area left for gas / air exchange but it could possibly reduce the amount of moisture that is currently escaping to air? or not? just a thought.

    Post crossed with above...
    Last edited by arceye; 28-11-2020 at 12:17 PM.

  11. Thanks RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  12. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Quote Originally Posted by Ukzero View Post
    When building an indoor swimming pool - not as irrelevant as it sounds - you have relatively very warm water compared with a ambient room temperature, condensation is something that can't be ignored.
    Simply, if the room surfaces are at a lower temperature than the water you can get condensation. If the actual air temperature is less than the water temperature can get visible mist.
    In a swimming pool at 28C you can begin to see the problem - which is why dehumidification is a thing here.

    There are several suggestions I could make in your case:
    1. I won't suggest continued extra ventilation in this instance because at this time of year the outside air can be both cold and humid - not what you want in there.
    2. Properly insulate the shed (at least the roof and walls) with no gaps. This will bring the shed ambient temperature up nearer to water temperature and reduce amount of condensation. The water will be a large heat store and will be heating the shed anyway.
    3. Cover any "open water". I presume you have air pumps/circulation so water O2 levels shouldn't be a problem - this will reduce evaporation (which supplies the a lot of extra water vapour to condense).
    4. Consider a shed heater for when it gets really cold - again to reduce differential between water/shed temp.
    5. You could consider dehumidying the air - but that will be an uphill battle and so unless money is no object I'd not bother with this.

    I hope this has been of use.
    I agree with the majority of this, but have a slightly different view on point 1 regarding ventilation. Cold air can indeed have a high relative humidity but assuming heating is also being used it is surely better to vent some of the very humid warm air though this will bring in the mentioned humid cold air.

    The relative humidity of cold air can indeed be high, however on heating the air that relative humidity would drop significantly.

    example... air at 0c with a R/H of 69% would if warmed to 20c only have a relative indoor humidity of 18%, a more extreme example is air at -8c with a relative humidity of 100% which is heated to 20c would have a R/H of just 15%.

    I think there is a need to replace some of the humid indoor air, and this of course can only be done by bringing in another source of air, this is still beneficial assuming some heating is present.

    I'm not suggesting a gale blowing through but I do believe there is a need for some ongoing ventilation in order to replace the heavily moisture laden air of the environment.

  13. #8
    Ventilation is a tricky one in our relatively small filter rooms/sheds in the depths of Winter.
    It's a question of balance as has been said, which can be surprisingly difficult to achieve with constantly varying outside temperature and humidity - which is why I was trying to suggest ways to reduce the condensation at source as it were.
    I don't disagree with any of the suggestions for more ventilation, it's just that getting the amount right can be a fine art.
    I remember a car salesman once moaning about the fact that on some "dry" days when he opened the tailgates to ventilate his used cars the interior condensation would dry out and on others they would actually get worse.
    Perhaps a fan system using internal and external RH sensors would be the ultimate answer to maximise ventilation when it would be of most benefit
    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

  14. Thanks arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    hi i have a 500 gallon qt grow on. and no covers on the tank. as i don t like them. i have my tank temperature at 21c and i heat the shed above that temperature with a electric heater.
    and i get no condensation what so ever. the electric heater runs on a timer 4 hours on and 2 hours off. roughly. and it works in my shed. i have one of those cheap plastic vents in the shed door.
    fred

  16. Thanks arceye, john1, paulbaines Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    hi i have a 500 gallon qt grow on. and no covers on the tank. as i don t like them. i have my tank temperature at 21c and i heat the shed above that temperature with a electric heater.
    and i get no condensation what so ever. the electric heater runs on a timer 4 hours on and 2 hours off. roughly. and it works in my shed. i have one of those cheap plastic vents in the shed door.
    fred
    No condensation but a big electricity bill. !

    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk

  18. Thanks freddyboy, john1, arceye, RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #11
    Lots of interesting posts above. Spent the day yesterday insulating roof and walls which hadn't been insulated before.
    Also covered both tanks.

    Like the idea of ventilation as it does feel very humid and whilst the air outside will be colder I think it will be a lot less humid.

    Has anyone used a bathroom extractor style fan or would that not be suitable ? They normally have timers but I think they can be overridden and an external switch / timer can be incorporated or even a humidity sensor??


    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk

  20. Thanks freddyboy, john1, arceye, dbs Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,681
    Thanks / Likes
    15206
    My 350 gal grow on is in the garage and I cover the top with clear 25mm polycarbonate to keep the heat in and no problems,when I need to look at the fry it just hinges up I get some stem coming out but no condensation.

    You have a nice set up there Graeme.
    John

  22. Thanks Graeme, freddyboy, arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #13
    Then I would recommend a small fan linked to one of these:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/22245028453...waAqRBEALw_wcB
    I have used one in my garage linked to a dehumidfier to prevent condensation and rust on my classic'ish car which is SORN'ed over Winter. Of course the garage doesn't haver all that water present so a dehumidifier makes more sense here.
    A small fan should be OK because the stat will run it for as long as needed.
    You would need to play around with a sustainable RH value. You can also double check to see how much RH reduces wit the fan on.
    The same device could also be linked to a small heater which would also help.
    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

  24. Thanks Graeme, arceye, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  25. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ukzero View Post
    Then I would recommend a small fan linked to one of these:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/22245028453...waAqRBEALw_wcB
    I have used one in my garage linked to a dehumidfier to prevent condensation and rust on my classic'ish car which is SORN'ed over Winter. Of course the garage doesn't haver all that water present so a dehumidifier makes more sense here.
    A small fan should be OK because the stat will run it for as long as needed.
    You would need to play around with a sustainable RH value. You can also double check to see how much RH reduces wit the fan on.
    The same device could also be linked to a small heater which would also help.
    I've literally just put the same item into my amazon basket. !!

    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk

  26. Thanks arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    My 350 gal grow on is in the garage and I cover the top with clear 25mm polycarbonate to keep the heat in and no problems,when I need to look at the fry it just hinges up I get some stem coming out but no condensation.

    You have a nice set up there Graeme.
    I like the idea of the clear polycarbonate. I've just used the 50mm thick insulation but it gives no light through .
    I could also use that on the windows aswell.

    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk

  28. Thanks arceye, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    1,663
    Thanks / Likes
    1105
    you want a heat exchanger unit in there, initial outlay is expensive, but the running cost is a very low powered fan.

    no point dumping the warmth you have paid for,

    a smaller version of that would be the ideal
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vent-axia...AAAOSwJZ5fw7G6
    the slow pond build thread

  30. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Kent UK
    Posts
    229
    Thanks / Likes
    526

    Condensation

    I would not want to just ventilate with an extractor.
    You are going to have to heat the room, and loose all that heat, get a HRVU
    The cost may be about £500 for a single room system, about £300-400 for the unit plus ducting and controls.
    I have a whole house system in my house, and they are fantastic. Running cost are tiny as you will recover 95% of the heat you have put into the room, and they cost so much less to run than a dehumidifier.
    The big advantage is they dump the moisture it’s removed from the air directly to outside, and then bring in a small amount of fresh air from outside to mix with the recovered warm air.
    You still need to insulate the roof.

    Heat Recovery Ventilation Unit HRVU DHV-04/100B | Heat Exchanger for Low Energy Consumption & Reduced Condensation https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00OQH8E..._b95XFb0JMA3SQ


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Dudley; 02-12-2020 at 03:17 PM.

  31. Thanks Graeme, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  32. #18
    Roof and all walls fully insulated now. See pic.
    Have also used clear polycarbonate 10mm over the two tanks and condensation has improved considerably. It tends to catch on the polycarbonate and when lifted goes back in.
    Early days but lots of good options from above thread.

    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk

  33. Thanks john1, freddyboy, arceye, Dudley Thanked / Liked this Post
  34. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,681
    Thanks / Likes
    15206
    Looking good Graeme,the sheets of polystyrene what thickness?

    Like the colour scheme must have took you ages to do all those black dots

    Seriously looks great and will keep it warm in there.
    John

  35. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  36. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Looking good Graeme,the sheets of polystyrene what thickness?

    Like the colour scheme must have took you ages to do all those black dots

    Seriously looks great and will keep it warm in there.
    The polystyrene is 50mm . Used a lot of felt pens to get the colour scheme right.

    Spent an hour hoovering the garden afterwards to pick up all the little bits broken off when cutting it !

    The room is quite toasty now without a heater.

    Sent from my SM-A516B using Tapatalk

  37. Thanks freddyboy, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:47 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.