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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    What a distressing sight, seeing it flapping around on the ground

    Glad you were able to rescue it.


    Something is definitely amiss. Have you checked for parasites?


    Really hope you get this sorted

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    RE flashing after feeding, I had a few do that not long after we got them a skittish asagi in particular , I asked the dealer about it as the numbers were good and he said soak the pellets for a while, in pure orange juice, sure enough they stopped. I slowly reintroduced the dry pellets and haven't seen it since.

    JIm
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    OMG It's happened again 05.39am this morning, this time my Hi Utsuri.????

    https://youtu.be/BO7rvSWvN1w



    Rescued, resuscitated and back swimming again.....hopefully all fine, although there was some minor blood loss from just below one gill cover.

    Both the Matsuba and the Utsuri are from the same dealer, hopefully just coincidence?
    I am definitely getting a net over this weekend while I build and install my winter covers. I would hate to lose a fish like this

    I have four other smaller fish that seem quite happy and non have tried to top themselves? Yet???

    I have been feeding 3-4 times a day and checking my water parameters every 2-3 days and up to now all seemed ok however last night I noted slightly raised ammonia.
    I have read this is to expected in a new pond?

    Ammonia 0.25 ppm
    Nitrite 0.0 ppm
    pH 7.6 ppm

    I have noticed some minor flashing, but this seems to be mainly after feeding for an hour or so and not constant.

    Should I be looking to carry out a water change or should I up the rate of my trickle in/out and let it hopefully sort this out over a few days ?


    Update on the Mastuba: It seems absolutely fine now and is back to its normal pond boss activity, see below.

    https://youtu.be/G-DfVZzyNUo


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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    What a distressing sight, seeing it flapping around on the ground

    Glad you were able to rescue it.


    Something is definitely amiss. Have you checked for parasites?


    Really hope you get this sorted
    Hi g mac,
    I haven't checked for parasites, they have only been in the pond 2 weeks this Saturday and have come from reputable sellers.
    I haven't the experience or gear to start scrapes etc yet, so I might have to ask the the dealer a call see if he can help out and ask if he has had any issues.
    I cant see the fish arriving with parasites though the place was immaculate and the guy was so enthusiastic and helpful when we where choosing the fish.
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
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  6. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamill View Post
    RE flashing after feeding, I had a few do that not long after we got them a skittish asagi in particular , I asked the dealer about it as the numbers were good and he said soak the pellets for a while, in pure orange juice, sure enough they stopped. I slowly reintroduced the dry pellets and haven't seen it since.

    JIm
    Hi Jim,

    I will try the orange juice tip, Cheers
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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  8. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    Hi g mac,
    I haven't checked for parasites, they have only been in the pond 2 weeks this Saturday and have come from reputable sellers.
    I haven't the experience or gear to start scrapes etc yet, so I might have to ask the the dealer a call see if he can help out and ask if he has had any issues.
    I cant see the fish arriving with parasites though the place was immaculate and the guy was so enthusiastic and helpful when we where choosing the fish.
    I had new purchases from a very reputable dealer and they had parasites. It can and does happen, and is not necessarily a sign of a bad dealer.

    Hopefully your dealer will help, or maybe someone on the forum who is local to you.


    Up until this summer I hadn't needed to scrape and didn't have all the kit but I was lucky enough to have a microscope donated to me. With that kind gesture, the advice on here and from Gaz at Aurora, I was soon carrying out scrapes and identifying the parasites, of which there were many.

    Really hope you don't have any more escapees.

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  10. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    I think that's a very sensible suggestion.

    Jim
    Quote Originally Posted by g mac View Post
    I had new purchases from a very reputable dealer and they had parasites. It can and does happen, and is not necessarily a sign of a bad dealer.

    Hopefully your dealer will help, or maybe someone on the forum who is local to you.


    Up until this summer I hadn't needed to scrape and didn't have all the kit but I was lucky enough to have a microscope donated to me. With that kind gesture, the advice on here and from Gaz at Aurora, I was soon carrying out scrapes and identifying the parasites, of which there were many.

    Really hope you don't have any more escapees.

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  12. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Ruffers I’d be amazed if there are any issues with Paul’s fish. I and a few other members on Here have had fish and there’s no issues, in my book he’s the best out there. I’d be very surprised if you have any parasites.
    Re the jumping ive had exactly the same first few weeks, my Karashagoi (not from Paul’s) was a big jumper, now he’s settled in he’s fine, as are all the fish, on a new pond the water is going through all sorts hence the jumping. No way would I leave the pool without a net just too risky. Now my waters more mature they don’t jump
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  14. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Ruffers I’d be amazed if there are any issues with Paul’s fish. I and a few other members on Here have had fish and there’s no issues, in my book he’s the best out there. I’d be very surprised if you have any parasites.
    Re the jumping ive had exactly the same first few weeks, my Karashagoi (not from Paul’s) was a big jumper, now he’s settled in he’s fine, as are all the fish, on a new pond the water is going through all sorts hence the jumping. No way would I leave the pool without a net just too risky. Now my waters more mature they don’t jump
    Sorry that wasn't a shot at a dealer I know nothing about, I just think its sensible if you can't find any other reason.

    2700 G heated Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier bakki.
    2700 G Above ground, Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier custom Evolve shower 9kW Thermotech ASHP

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  16. #29
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Ruffers I’d be amazed if there are any issues with Paul’s fish. I and a few other members on Here have had fish and there’s no issues, in my book he’s the best out there. I’d be very surprised if you have any parasites.
    Re the jumping ive had exactly the same first few weeks, my Karashagoi (not from Paul’s) was a big jumper, now he’s settled in he’s fine, as are all the fish, on a new pond the water is going through all sorts hence the jumping. No way would I leave the pool without a net just too risky. Now my waters more mature they don’t jump
    Hi Spongebob,

    I was thinking the same really regarding Pauls fish, but never say never? I know you have had fish recently from the same holding tank without issue?

    I am trying everything to keep the water in as good a condition as I can, for a new pond. Its just bugging me that its both Pauls fish that have tried to end it all.....and they are probably best two fish out of six in the pond.

    The covering net is on its way so hopefully I will get it installed this weekend.

    I got such a lot to still get done on the pond its hard finding the time now especially with the weather we've had lately.

    Polycarb frame and covers to build and fit, composite cladding to fit to surrounding walls and fence, Bakki shower to get up and running once cladding installed, Filter house lids to make and install. etc etc etc

    Perseverance, enthusiasm and great advice from everyone on here is all helping get me through an extremely large learning curve
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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  18. #30
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamill View Post
    Sorry that wasn't a shot at a dealer I know nothing about, I just think its sensible if you can't find any other reason.

    2700 G heated Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier bakki.
    No problem, I new it wasn't.
    At the end of the day I'm a newbie and I will probably learn the hard way. No matter how much good advice and help I'm given.
    Hopefully the lessons will not be to hard?
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

  19. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    I’m sure there are more stringent dealers than others but I’m sure no dealer could claim their fish are parasite free.

    All new fish should be quarantined, I know that this is not possible for everyone but by not you run the risk of infecting your other existing fish.

    It’s not just parasites to worry about there are lots of viruses that fish can carry.

    It is common for fish to jump in the first few days of being added to a new environment but I would have expected this to have calmed down after a few weeks.

    Flashing after feeds could be caused by ammonia spikes and other reasons.

    I would keep an eye on them. And maybe cut back on the feeding. What temperature are you currently at and what food are you feeding and how much?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  21. #32
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamill View Post
    In a previous pond I had a favourite mirror carp jump out.
    I wandered past the pond and a leaf covered muddy stone that had never been there before caught my eye.
    I peered at this oval shaped "flat-ish stone " and realised it was my 12 inch mirror carp covered in dried mud, bits of leaves etc. Still as a dead fish but it twitched when I lifted it.
    I put it in the closest thing to hand which was a rain water butt as I thought if I put it in the pond it would sink and die . Gently all the gunk just slowly melted off it.
    It lived for many more years till a bloody mink had it as a snack and left me its head.
    If the fall doesn't kill them and the gills stay moist they'll be fine for hrs.
    The mucous just dries and protects them.
    We weren't as lucky with a nice 2 yr old gin rin Asagi called Corona recently.

    2700 G heated Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier bakki.
    yep I lost a Large 5yr old Mirror Carp the same way lost in the leaf litter. I have had 4 jumping koi over the years for no obvious reasons They managed to slip between the net & pond edge when the level was high. One went over the top of the skimmer only one was recovered in time when alerted by the dog Who showed great concern.
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  23. #33
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    As a dealer myself, i can confirm it is impossible for anyone to guarantee parasite free koi. The practicalities of scraping every koi everyday are impossible.

    What is possible though:

    Dealer scrape a sample of their stock regularly
    Dealer keep records of Koi purchased, sold and treatments undertaken in their care
    Dealer offer advice and assistance in the event of an issue arising at a customers
    Dealer take Koi off sale during outbreaks and treatments
    Deater give advice on adding new koi / QT if required- generally though most keepers appreciate the risks associated with adding new koi.

    Koi jumping in a new environment (to them) is not uncommon and a net or other cover would be recommended to mitigate risk.

    Also what is not uncommon is parasites taking advantage of a stressed koi situation which can arise from netting, handling, bagging, transporting and adding to a new environment. Koi can be healthy at the dealers but the stress endured can create a ‘parasitic host’.

    Not that I subscribe to this, however due to the above, some keepers either PP dip koi before adding to their collection (most don’t have QTs) or FMG the pond upon addition. Personally I don’t but there are many different practices some keepers adopt.

    In this situation, I would:

    Net / cover the pond ASAP
    Check / double check water parameters
    Undertake a microscope scrape - if you don’t have experience in this I am happy to chat through...if that will help.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  25. #34
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    This is a document I display at Aurora Koi Ltd


    INTRODUCING NEW KOI TO YOUR POND


    Is introducing new Koi directly into your pond worth risking the lives of all of your existing fish?
    If this question causes you to stop and think, then you need to set up a decent quarantine system (before you bring home any new fish).

    Despite our regular health checks, close behaviour monitoring and strict sourcing, there are unfortunately no guarantees in the Koi world, but the more effort you put into it the better your results will be.

    Here are several levels of quarantine to choose from.

    Basic - Bring the new koi home, float for 20 minutes, release them in to the pond and hope for the best.

    Easy - Release them in to an adequate separate container and watch them for a few days. If all looks well, release them in to the pond and hope for the best.

    Better - Release them in to an adequate separate container. Maintain mid 70s temperature, good filtration, good aeration, get them eating and watch them for at least 3 weeks. If all looks well, release them in to the pond.

    Best - Release them in to a large well prepared separate quarantine system with all dedicated equipment. Everything should be separate from what is used in the main pond (separate nets, bowls, etc.). Maintain mid 70s temperature, good filtration, good aeration, get them eating and watch them for at least 2 weeks. Do microscope scrapings to check for parasites. If all looks well, then add a fish from your pond to the quarantine tank and watch them for 6 weeks. If all is well after this 8 week total period, release them in to the pond.

    The only things that can be done beyond this would be to hold the new fish separately for a full year and for a very valuable koi collection, blood serology testing might be appropriate.


    The reality is many customers do not have separate QT facilities to utilise. At Aurora Koi Ltd we are freely available to assist customers and prospective customers with advice, visitation (distance and lockdown permitting) and access to a wide range of treatments because in our opinion a successful Koi business is more than sales alone.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  27. #35
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    This is a document I display at Aurora Koi Ltd


    INTRODUCING NEW KOI TO YOUR POND


    Is introducing new Koi directly into your pond worth risking the lives of all of your existing fish?
    If this question causes you to stop and think, then you need to set up a decent quarantine system (before you bring home any new fish).

    Despite our regular health checks, close behaviour monitoring and strict sourcing, there are unfortunately no guarantees in the Koi world, but the more effort you put into it the better your results will be.

    Here are several levels of quarantine to choose from.

    Basic - Bring the new koi home, float for 20 minutes, release them in to the pond and hope for the best.

    Easy - Release them in to an adequate separate container and watch them for a few days. If all looks well, release them in to the pond and hope for the best.

    Better - Release them in to an adequate separate container. Maintain mid 70s temperature, good filtration, good aeration, get them eating and watch them for at least 3 weeks. If all looks well, release them in to the pond.

    Best - Release them in to a large well prepared separate quarantine system with all dedicated equipment. Everything should be separate from what is used in the main pond (separate nets, bowls, etc.). Maintain mid 70s temperature, good filtration, good aeration, get them eating and watch them for at least 2 weeks. Do microscope scrapings to check for parasites. If all looks well, then add a fish from your pond to the quarantine tank and watch them for 6 weeks. If all is well after this 8 week total period, release them in to the pond.

    The only things that can be done beyond this would be to hold the new fish separately for a full year and for a very valuable koi collection, blood serology testing might be appropriate.


    The reality is many customers do not have separate QT facilities to utilise. At Aurora Koi Ltd we are freely available to assist customers and prospective customers with advice, visitation (distance and lockdown permitting) and access to a wide range of treatments because in our opinion a successful Koi business is more than sales alone.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Gaz, I genuinely look forward to getting over from Ireland and hopefully buying something from you. Thanks for that.
    Professional and informative.
    Jim

    2700 G heated Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier bakki.
    2700 G Above ground, Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier custom Evolve shower 9kW Thermotech ASHP

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  29. #36
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai MikeMack's Avatar
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    It’s also not uncommon for them to jump out over a window, seen it a number of times on the Facebook groups.

    I’d definitely have a look at jump guards if I were you
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  31. #37
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMack View Post
    It’s also not uncommon for them to jump out over a window, seen it a number of times on the Facebook groups.

    I’d definitely have a look at jump guards if I were you
    Hi Mate,

    I will get the net over as a temp fix for now.
    Probably look at jump guards next season. (Spent money on pond project like its going out of fashion this year )
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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  33. #38
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    Hi All,

    As a dealer myself, i can confirm it is impossible for anyone to guarantee parasite free koi. The practicalities of scraping every koi everyday are impossible.

    What is possible though:

    Dealer scrape a sample of their stock regularly
    Dealer keep records of Koi purchased, sold and treatments undertaken in their care
    Dealer offer advice and assistance in the event of an issue arising at a customers
    Dealer take Koi off sale during outbreaks and treatments
    Deater give advice on adding new koi / QT if required- generally though most keepers appreciate the risks associated with adding new koi.

    Koi jumping in a new environment (to them) is not uncommon and a net or other cover would be recommended to mitigate risk.

    Also what is not uncommon is parasites taking advantage of a stressed koi situation which can arise from netting, handling, bagging, transporting and adding to a new environment. Koi can be healthy at the dealers but the stress endured can create a ‘parasitic host’.

    Not that I subscribe to this, however due to the above, some keepers either PP dip koi before adding to their collection (most don’t have QTs) or FMG the pond upon addition. Personally I don’t but there are many different practices some keepers adopt.

    In this situation, I would:

    Net / cover the pond ASAP
    Check / double check water parameters
    Undertake a microscope scrape - if you don’t have experience in this I am happy to chat through...if that will help.

    Cheers

    Gaz

    I think a microscope might be on my Xmas list for Santa this year?
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

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  35. #39
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffers22 View Post
    Hi Mate,

    I will get the net over as a temp fix for now.
    Probably look at jump guards next season. (Spent money on pond project like its going out of fashion this year )
    Mate, it's so easy to do with this hobby, spend money that is. I started totting up my spend this past season, just on treatments, replacement kit and a few fish. I gave up and put the calculator away

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  37. #40
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Ruffers22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    I’m sure there are more stringent dealers than others but I’m sure no dealer could claim their fish are parasite free.

    All new fish should be quarantined, I know that this is not possible for everyone but by not you run the risk of infecting your other existing fish.

    It’s not just parasites to worry about there are lots of viruses that fish can carry.

    It is common for fish to jump in the first few days of being added to a new environment but I would have expected this to have calmed down after a few weeks.

    Flashing after feeds could be caused by ammonia spikes and other reasons.

    I would keep an eye on them. And maybe cut back on the feeding. What temperature are you currently at and what food are you feeding and how much?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi Mike,

    I've kept the water at 19-20 degrees since day one, hoping to give the filter bacteria the best chance going into winter.

    I'm about 6-8 weeks from start up now and about 4-5 weeks since introducing the first 4 smaller fish along with 2 vials of the OASE Biokick Premium to the filter media.

    Introduced the two larger koi 2 weeks ago this Saturday (possibly premature and a bad move on my part) as everything was looking good, water parameters etc and original 4 fish looked fine and settled in.

    I have been feeding 3-4 times a day with a mix of 3mm wheatgerm and some medicated growth food that the dealers recommended and supplied with the fish.(There own mix they were feeding) said they would be fine with this due to my water temp.
    All looked good the fish were active but seemed settled.

    Then the 2 jumping out incidents and the rise in ammonia and nitrite earlier this week.....I suppose its the dreaded new pond syndrome kicking which I've read is a process that all new ponds go through and should be expected as the filters start up and hopefully if picked up early controllable before any serious damage is done.

    I have cut down the feeding to twice a day, along with the amount fed. Upped my water trickle in/out and also chucked a pond bomb in the filter this morning, to hopefully get this ammonia/nitrite spike under control.
    So fingers crossed I'm hoping things will start to settle again fairly rapidly.
    I will be testing water again later to see if there is hopefully an improvement.
    EZ-pond 1200i Semi-Raised Pond, Spin-drifter BD, Oase Aquaskim, Oase Proficlear Compact Gravity, 1x Bermuda 10,000, 1x Evo-Aqua 20,000 Vari Wi-fi Pumps, 2x Evo-Aqua 70L Air Pumps , Evo-Aqua 55w UV, Aqua-Sieve Midi, 3 Tier Fabricated Stainless Shower, Hydro-Pro Z7 Heat Pump, 48" Big Blue De-chlorinator, Profi Auto Feeder & Seneye Pond Pack.
    "That'll do pig. That'll do"

  38. Thanks g mac, Mikeh83 Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
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