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  1. #1

    Recommended Course Of Action

    Hi all

    I have had a sudden death of one of our koi (pics attached) and have another which has the following issues.

    Have done Blagdon All in One Course, wanted to ask if there was any recommended treatment to introduce to ensure no further fatalities!

    Thank you


    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai maplekoi's Avatar
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    i would first make sure your parameters are all ok and then get some scrapes done , its not really a good idea to put treatments in without knowing what you are dealing with , also watch the temperatures has some treatment dont really work at low temperatures

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by maplekoi View Post
    i would first make sure your parameters are all ok and then get some scrapes done , its not really a good idea to put treatments in without knowing what you are dealing with , also watch the temperatures has some treatment dont really work at low temperatures
    Thanks for the quick reply, I can confirm the water levels (PH, oxygen etc) are all fine from the tests done

    Any recommendations for where to find someone suitable to do the scrapes?

  5. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai maplekoi's Avatar
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    you could put a rough location on the post there are plenty of people out there willing to help

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  7. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by maplekoi View Post
    you could put a rough location on the post there are plenty of people out there willing to help

    Based in Reading, Berkshire

    PH levels came out at 6.7

  8. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai maplekoi's Avatar
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    you could try Lee Buroughs or there maybe someone see the post who is local to you

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  10. #7
    Ok i will see if someone local responds, thank you

  11. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by loyalroyal View Post
    Based in Reading, Berkshire

    PH levels came out at 6.7
    I doubt that pH alone caused that issue because it looks like a systemic bacterial infection which is frequently caused by bacteria entering through the wound caused by a parasite but it would be wrong to jump to that conclusion at this stage because you will need a scrape to confirm if that's correct.

    However, a pH of 6.7 is not "fine" so you need to raise it without delay especially if it's at the bottom of the range covered by the test kit so it can't read any lower. For the sake of your other koi, can you post the actual figures of the other tests because sub optimal parameters are often at the root of a weakened immune system so koi can fall victim the a bacterial or parasite infection that they may have otherwise have resisted if it had been at full strength.

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  13. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    I doubt that pH alone caused that issue because it looks like a systemic bacterial infection which is frequently caused by bacteria entering through the wound caused by a parasite but it would be wrong to jump to that conclusion at this stage because you will need a scrape to confirm if that's correct.

    However, a pH of 6.7 is not "fine" so you need to raise it without delay especially if it's at the bottom of the range covered by the test kit so it can't read any lower. For the sake of your other koi, can you post the actual figures of the other tests because sub optimal parameters are often at the root of a weakened immune system so koi can fall victim the a bacterial or parasite infection that they may have otherwise have resisted if it had been at full strength.

    The company (Pondtec) who did the tests have simply noted PO4, NO2, NH3, N03 levels to be fine rather than an actual reading showing, is there a kit recommended which I can look to take the tests myself?

  14. #10
    That's the trouble when others are used to supply the results. What they might refer to as fine, ok, normal or spot on etc. is their opinion and I regularly receive requests for help from people who have been sold a "cure" when the parameters are very questionable and need correcting before any medical treatment.

    This isn't your fault but you can avoid the situation in future if you do your own tests. We all have our favourite recommendations for manual test kits but, my recommendation is the API Freshwater Master kit because it's accuracy is similar to the others but you get a very generous amount of reagents so the cost per test is low because you don't have to keep buying replacements. However, the kit doesn't have a KH test which is essential so you also will have to get their KH and GH kit. Don't bother with the GH test except out of interest but KH is an important test.

    You can get fast delivery from Amazon or you can shop around for a lower price.

    The chart below gives you the optimum parameter values and the corrective action to take if any are outside the acceptable range. If you, or anyone else, wants a copy that can be laminated for future reference, there is one in the document library on my website. Follow the instructions at the bottom of this page to download and print:
    Ammonia chart

    In the meantime, you can raise the pH by using sodium bicarbonate if you have any at a rate of 30 grams per 1,000 litres per day until you get a mid range pH. Or, if you don't, you should do a 20% water change tonight if possible using a dechlorinator just in case your pH is lower than the 6.7 as I put in my previous post. In your area a large water change will raise the pH enough to remove the danger of a pH crash.

    We can witter on about scrapes later but get the pH up as soon as you can just in case.






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  16. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Amazon have a fantastic price on the API Master kits right now at £17.69.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwa...g=hydrukspg-21


    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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  18. #12
    Great help guys thank you

    I have ordered the test kit and will do a 20% water change in the meantime. I will let you know the test results when I do the water test

    In meantime if anyone has further recommendations for scrapes to be done let me know

    Many thanks

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  20. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loyalroyal View Post
    Great help guys thank you

    I have ordered the test kit and will do a 20% water change in the meantime. I will let you know the test results when I do the water test

    In meantime if anyone has further recommendations for scrapes to be done let me know

    Many thanks

    Definitely do scrapes if you have access to them being done or can do yourself

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  22. #14
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loyalroyal View Post
    Great help guys thank you

    I have ordered the test kit and will do a 20% water change in the meantime. I will let you know the test results when I do the water test

    In meantime if anyone has further recommendations for scrapes to be done let me know

    Many thanks
    The dead fish looks like it died of a systemic bacterial infection- but these are almost invariably secondary to some other disease process or water issue.

    Its best to sit on your hands until you have water data to work with really. Are you dechlorinating your water changes? (And what with?)

    This company does visits across the country so could be worth you contacting for help with scrapes. https://koivalley.co.uk/
    If you do get somebody out, watch what they do closely because it’s a technique that is relatively easy to learn to do yourself if you invest around £100 on a decent monocular microscope.

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  24. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    The dead fish looks like it died of a systemic bacterial infection- but these are almost invariably secondary to some other disease process or water issue.

    Its best to sit on your hands until you have water data to work with really. Are you dechlorinating your water changes? (And what with?)

    This company does visits across the country so could be worth you contacting for help with scrapes. https://koivalley.co.uk/
    If you do get somebody out, watch what they do closely because it’s a technique that is relatively easy to learn to do yourself if you invest around £100 on a decent monocular microscope.

    Thanks for the reply, will check out the company.

    I use fresh start when doing water changes, is that ok to use or should I be looking to use alternatives?

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  26. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear of your loss.

    How clean is your pond? Do you have much silt or muck built up on the floor of the pond (more likely in a pond with no bottom drain) or in the filters?

    If you do, then this could be harbouring bad bacteria and parasites too.

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  28. #17
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loyalroyal View Post
    Thanks for the reply, will check out the company.

    I use fresh start when doing water changes, is that ok to use or should I be looking to use alternatives?
    Fresh start is fine.

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  30. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Sorry to hear of your loss.

    How clean is your pond? Do you have much silt or muck built up on the floor of the pond (more likely in a pond with no bottom drain) or in the filters?

    If you do, then this could be harbouring bad bacteria and parasites too.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Thank you for that, was gutted as came so unexpected.

    Nope the pond is clean, only recently was it cleaned including the filter, linings etc and the bottom so can't say it would be that in isolation

  31. #19
    OP - have you put Cloverleaf Blanket Answer in the pond in the last few weeks? Looks exactly like the condition of my fish that died earlier this year after using it.....

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  33. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    OP - have you put Cloverleaf Blanket Answer in the pond in the last few weeks? Looks exactly like the condition of my fish that died earlier this year after using it.....

    Yes i did! Do you mean your fish came up with the red marks? What was it that caused it do you know?

    Is the stuff not safe to use then?

 

 
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