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Thread: Frameless Poly Carb Covers
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28-09-2020, 12:37 PM #1
Frameless Poly Carb Covers
I've had a few requests now, and a long overdue promise to @LauLau, to share my solution for 'frameless' poly carb covers, so here goes...
I'll start with a confession - this isn't entirely 'frameless' in the sense that I have made a very simple timber structure out of left over bits of mostly 2x2 timber, but this 'frame' is freestanding, removable (for maintenance), collapsable (for summer storage) and most importantly - easy to make (for numpties like me). The solution works well on my straight edged, raised pond, but I would think that with a bit of imagination, this idea could be adapted to suit other shapes and layouts.
My problem was that, having finally decided to use 35mm Clear Poly Carbs from Varico (after ruling out Euro-Matic balls as per my post in this thread: Load of Balls), and chosen to have six 67.5cm wide x 2.6m long poly sections to span the entire width and length of my pond, covering right up and over my infinity windows, I still had the problem of how to keep the polys on my pond without them blowing away. I didn't want to use timber battens attached to the polys because that would 1) make them too heavy for me to easily move around on my own (each sheet being only 6.3kg each) and 2) require me to drill my polys. I didn't want to create a timber frame over the pond onto which the polys would lie because I didn't like the idea of my fish damaging themselves on the timber edges if they jumped a bit, as the gap between the top of the water and whatever laid across the pond would be only about 3".
I first realised that I needed to block the gap between the top of my windows and the polys as wind would get under that and lift the covers. I solved this with lengths of 40mm black pipe wedged between the copings:
40mm Tube Infills.jpg
Trouble was, the wind could get so strong that it would blow these off and onto the pond under the covers. After being woken in the early hours to an almighty crash, where the front poly had been blown right over the pond and filter house and landed on my lawn, having scraped a nice gash down one of my filter house doors, I realised this wasn't going to work! However, I was very impressed that the poly didn't break, just has a bit of a dint on one side. I tried taping the tubes into place with Polyethylene tape but that looked a bit crap on the windows, and water would eventually compromise the tape and it would start to lift. I tried weighing the polys down with left over granite copings, but it worried me that one day a gust may be strong enough to still lift a poly and then I'd have granite slabs flying around. Not something I wanted to risk with my pond windows. So, I came up with this idea which not only stopped the problem of flying polys, but held the tubes firmly in place and puts the edges of the sheets under tension which stops them bending so much in the middle:
Frame Design.JPG
I used M10 Coach Bolts and Washers from Toolstation, some long 3.5" screws I had in my 'hoarders kit' to create the plant stands, Adjustable Toggle Clamps from Amazon, and a couple of 38mm Butt Hinges from Wickes. Last year, the timber was painted with 3 coats of black Cuprinol Ducksback.This year, I have treated all these fittings with Rustins Rust Converter as some had rusted, then painted over them all with a couple of fresh coats of Ducksback:
Poly Carb Frames 01.jpg
And this is how it all looks and works. I use two granite slabs on the side plant stands, rather than pots, but the front are weighted by my plant pots all winter:
Frames In Situ 01.jpg Frames In Situ 02.jpg Frames In Situ 03.jpg Frames In Situ 04.jpg
The Toggle Clamps on the front are excellent as they are highly adjustable, so you can get a good strong lock between the timbers which adds yet more tension to the side timbers. The hinge allows me to lift the front poly for feeding and temp checks, and to prop it open to let some fresh air circulate for a little while when it's not windy:
Toggle Clamp.jpg Top Hinges.jpg Propped Open 01.jpg Propped Open 02.jpg
When I need to do a bit more maintenance, such as turn my in-pond pump on to waft out any debris behind my Anoxic baskets on the shelf (which is just below the front window), I lay the front timbers right back on their hinges, and lift the front poly off totally. If I'm going to be leaving it open like this for any length of time, I'll pop four lengths of the White End Closures over the raw edge of the 2nd poly (see arrow) that I bought with my Verico order, but no longer use on my sealed ends. This is to protect the fish from the sharp edge of the poly should they jump whilst the front is open.
Laid Open.jpg
If I need full access to the pond during winter (to clean my windows, or net a fish), it's quick and easy to lift off the slabs and plant pots, set the frames to one side, stack the polys on two of my wicker chairs that I place in front of the pond, and off I go. It is of course much easier to do all this with hubs around to help lift the polys, but in the event that he isn't, I can still manage this on my own. When it comes to putting the polys away in Spring, I can easily dismantle the frames at the bolt joints, and lay them behind my summer house.
I hope this is helpful for some of you good folk, and before I sign off, here are a few tips from my poly experiences to date...
11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade
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jayjt29, Djstiles999, Ashy, davethefish1, RS2OOO, ganroob, Wain, SamuraiJack, dbs, Stephen01, Jackboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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28-09-2020, 12:40 PM #2
Poly Carb Tips
Tip 1: Poly carb is UV blocking, but apparently only on one side! The only way you can tell which side, is when they are first delivered and the protective sheet tells you which way is UP! Having initially used the plastic End Closures the first season, I knew which side was UP as the Closures have drainage holes on the underside. However, having decided not to use them again as they are a pain and keep falling off, I removed them before washing down the covers for storage, and then realised I'd totally lost track of which way was UP, therefore if you do want to block all UV from the pond, make sure you mark your sheets in a way that will permanently tell you which way they need to go!
Tip 2: 35mm poly is worth buying if you can stretch your budget to that as, besides offering the best insultation, it can be used without a bracing frame. Whilst it will absolutely still bend very slightly in the middle when spanning a large gap, it will be minimal compared to anything thinner. For me, this isn't an issue. I just periodically turn the sheets over so they bend the other way! This has the added benefit of killing off any algae that may have started to grow under the sheets - though to be honest, I've had very little of this since I've been using polys. This is also another reason I don't lose any sleep over which side has the UV blocking properties, as they all get turned over periodically anyhow, and I can't say I've noticed a huge difference in the speed at which the algae will grow on my windows. It's definitely way slower in winter, but they still need cleaning.
Tip 3: 35mm poly will hold up very well to snow, but when it gets thick, best to brush it off to prevent too much bend.
Tip 4: Use Clear poly rather than Opal or Bronze. Clear will still cut out some light to the pond, but does allow the fish a day and night cycle. The other colours make the pond really dark, especially if you don't have windows. This is another reason I like my polys vs any other type of cover such as the Euro-Matic balls or opaque swimming pool covers. I can't imagine what it would be like to be kept in the dark for up to 6 months of the year, so I think Clear is best for our fish
Tip 5: If possible, store your polys flat over summer to keep them straight. If you can't, and they have to be stored side on, I'd recommend protecting the corners with the packaging they'll come with, and then wrapping them in something strong to keep them all together, such as DPM. I did this after the first use, and stored them down the side of the house. Worked fine, but I did it in two sections to make them easier to move, and it took a lot of effort and DPM. This year, after I'd finished using the polys on my Intex whist the pond was stripped down, they were piled flat in one side of my summer house whilst my garden furniture set was outside, and that worked much better. Luckily they were not in the way of our gym equipment so we were able to carry on ignoring it as normal . This is another reason it's great to have your polys in narrow sections - easier to stack and store!
Tip 6: Besides keeping the wind chill factor off your pond, your polys will insulate, but to do this the ends of the sheets need to be sealed with tape to trap the air. It also stops bugs and insects taking up residence inside the chambers. Poly from Verico comes with silver tape in place already, with one end being the felt backed breathable tape. Unfortunately, after the first season, I had to remove the silver tape that came on my polys as Varico had done an atrocious job of applying it and it was peeling off. However, the question of whether or not you need 'breathable' tape one end, when used flat over a koi pond is hotly debated in various places on line. The idea of a breathable end with pin-prick holes, is that it allows moisture from condensation to drain out of a poly carb roof that is installed at an angle. So the 2nd year I used them, I put my own white duct tape over the ends and pin pricked it all. I still got condensation build up. So this year, I'm trying totally sealed ends with black duct tape... and we'll see what happens, as apparently, the condensation will come and go regardless of whether you have breathable end or not. We'll see! Watch this space11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade
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28-09-2020, 01:52 PM #3
I used a tough glazing tape that was recommended by the polycarb supplier to replace the end tape on mine, and also to seal the edges of my feeding hatch.
Need to make an alteration if I decide to use the covers this winter to allow my autofeeeder to work if I want to use it. I keep odd irregular hours because of the long night shifts I work so manually feeding them is erratic and not to their liking
I am a ‘function over form’ kind of person (in everything but my phones and computers) so my 35mm polycarb tends to just get whacked over the pond with bricks on top
You absolutely will get droopage in the middle even with 7 wall 35mm if your pond is big- had I not gone for 4 fairly large sheets this would likely have been more of a problem. Some people may want to consider what happens to rain water if you are using your polycarb sheets totally flat. It’s a fair surface area to collect water, and it will tend to run to the lowest drooped point then weep between the panels into the pond. Obv this is the same as happens in the summer, but it rains more in winter and some ponds more likely to get pH crash in winter due to this. Some people might prefer to create a sloped structure so water goes outside of the pond.
Here is my epic pond coverage during ‘beast from the east’ 3 years ago lol
Snowpocalypse by Lara Day, on Flickr
Check out the epic concrete block holding it down lolz
IMG_4619 by Lara Day, on Flickr
Oh yeah, I use a big magnetic aquarium cleaning thingy to clean pond window when the pond is covered so save messing with the covers at all. Just give it a whiz over with the magnet every few days.Last edited by Feline; 28-09-2020 at 02:00 PM.
2016 new 6000 gallon pond
https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construc...ghlight=feline
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28-09-2020, 02:20 PM #411,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade
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28-09-2020, 11:04 PM #5
Lovely job Koiz, thanks for taking so much trouble to explain and illustrate it
JimI don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........
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28-09-2020, 11:41 PM #6
+1 great write up. I think I’m over my pond balls phase.... I just need to figure out how I can do this polycarbonate cover malarkey round . With a big outer frame I can do this in one sheet ( bonus on small surface area) I seem to remember you can’t cut this stuff or all the swarf gets trapped inside?
Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP
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Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
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29-09-2020, 12:11 AM #7
I would imagine any debris in the multiwall could be hoovered out ... like I did the dead insects that made their home in my covers whilst they were in the summer house with unsealed ends!
This website seems to be a good source for ploy cutting techniques:
https://www.weetect.com/cutting-polycarbonate/
Think you're first call is to Verico to find out if they can cut to your curves .
Final thought, consider how you'll store your covers when not in use. Even if you could get a single sheet large enough to cover your whole surface, could you store it?
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade
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29-09-2020, 01:11 AM #8
I’ve cut the stuff, my previous pond was round. You do get some swarf inside, but it really doesn’t matter. It will still do exactly the same job insulating. The first time I made pond covers with clear polycarb I had it in my head that I would be able to see the fish through it at least a little bit. You actually can’t. So personally I wouldn’t be getting too hung up on the appearance of your cut edges.
I did try both vacuum and hair dryer to suck/blow the swarf out, but it didn’t really work, nor did trying to bang it out of there. Stuff kind of sticks in there by static.2016 new 6000 gallon pond
https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construc...ghlight=feline
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29-09-2020, 09:42 AM #9
Great write up and a brilliant job
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29-09-2020, 06:25 PM #10
Brilliant job , I like the design well thought out , I’m glad mine is under a pargoda with polycarbonate roof
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30-09-2020, 02:22 PM #11
Brilliant info and some excellent tips Koiz, thanks for posting.
As my pond has wooden capping I've decided I'm going to screw my covers directly onto the pond, except the one I'll need to lift to check on the koi which will attach via hooks and bungee straps.
For mine gaps will be filled with adhesive backed weather resistant high density packaging foam. Will post some pics up when they're finished, but it definitely won't look as professional as your set up!
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30-09-2020, 02:57 PM #12
i went this way mate. hell of a lot easier for round pond. and my upper pond here is a link
https://www.poolwarehouse.uk.com/ind...-solar-covers/
Also easy to stow away
FredLast edited by freddyboy; 30-09-2020 at 03:02 PM.
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30-09-2020, 03:05 PM #13
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Koiz Thanked / Liked this Post
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30-09-2020, 05:45 PM #14Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP
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03-10-2020, 10:24 AM #15
Great thread
and WHAT a garden . ., ,
when I grow up I want a garden like that.1000 gal
2 x Hozelock 6000ltr 9W UV
Allpond Spin Filter 8000 11W UV
Blagdon pond oxy 640 ltr/hr
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04-10-2020, 08:38 PM #16
That's very kind. Thank you
Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade
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04-10-2020, 09:25 PM #17
I’ve been using 35mm poly for around 5 years now, and it sits on top of a timber frame with no fixings. As long as the wind cannot get underneath, they will stay put. I originally wanted to go frameless, but over a 3m span including 25cm walls, this was not going to work, the panels flex too much under their own weight. Add a few inches of snow and they would be touching the surface.
My biggest issue is taping up the ends. Every year I dry them out and put on fresh tape, but come spring, there are a couple of litres inside every panel. I don’t know if it’s weather getting in or a build up of condensation, but it’s always the same. I’ve used every type of clear tape there is, even super sticky clear duck tape, but nothing keeps them dry. I wrap 100mm clear tape over the end, and then seal it over the top with 50mm. The tape stays stuck, but the water still gets in.
If anyone has a method for keeping them dry, I would love to hear it.
Mark19,000 litres
Nexus 320 with Dracodrum and submersible UV
Blue Eco 320
Eazy Pod on skimmer
Dura+ 10kW Heat Pump
15 koi
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04-10-2020, 09:42 PM #18
My understanding is that this is condensation. Normally polys are installed at an angle (for roofs) and taped with breathable tape on the lower edge which allows them to drain downwards. I've not had too much condensation build up last 2 years, but that may change this year as I've taped both ends with non breathable tape. I'll report what happens
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04-10-2020, 11:55 PM #19
1:You have to use a breathable tape at the "bottom" edge, but our pond problem is we mount near horizontal. Its over a pond humidity is near 100 % So condensation is inevitable.
A glazing friend put me on to this when we were speaking about covers for mine , its a great simple explainer. No credit claimed! No commercial interest either.
You need pitch in the cover/roof if close to the water.
https://www.omegabuild.com/condensation-tips
Sent from my SM-G973F using TapatalkLast edited by jphamill; 05-10-2020 at 09:36 AM.
2700 G Above ground, Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier custom Evolve shower 9kW Thermotech ASHP
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05-10-2020, 12:07 AM #20
what an in depth write, thank you for sharing.
MoHuman life is truly a short affair. It is better to live doing the things that you like Inazo Nitobe
The Daily pond temp thread
Pond still covered, currently 11.6C Been really mild this year as far as pond temps go. ...