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  1. #61
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Liking the hatch like ��
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  3. #62
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Polycarbonate Covers....too soon?

    Looks great. You planning on boxing in that shower, as that will really chill the water


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  5. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Looks great. You planning on boxing in that shower, as that will really chill the water


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I thought the same- but also because where the sheet water comes in there is a big gap in the cover. Which actually makes the cover almost pointless - think of heating your house and then leaving your bifold doors open!

    you need to get that covered up ASAP. I’ve actually got tank connectors on my shower because I wanted to run twin 2” pipes back to the pond below the surface so I could insulate properly and keep it running throughout the winter.

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  7. #64
    nope its been fine, its quite sheltered where the pond is so no real wind chill and gets sun all day, i kept 20000 lph going over it last winter the lowest i went was 9.8 for 1 night, think as much a shower may chill the water it can also warm it, same reason why i didnt insulate the pond, the heat during the day will go through the blocks and for a while store the heat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Looks great. You planning on boxing in that shower, as that will really chill the water


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  9. #65
    i dont heat my outside pond mate i think its a good thing giving the bigger ones a winter season. Of course theres a gap where the water goes in! Have you ever smelled the ammonia from an enclosed shower, they need air exchange, stuff needs to be gassed off, theres no way id have my pond or shower sealed up



    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    I thought the same- but also because where the sheet water comes in there is a big gap in the cover. Which actually makes the cover almost pointless - think of heating your house and then leaving your bifold doors open!

    you need to get that covered up ASAP. I’ve actually got tank connectors on my shower because I wanted to run twin 2” pipes back to the pond below the surface so I could insulate properly and keep it running throughout the winter.

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  11. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by sephuk View Post
    nope its been fine, its quite sheltered where the pond is so no real wind chill and gets sun all day, i kept 20000 lph going over it last winter the lowest i went was 9.8 for 1 night, think as much a shower may chill the water it can also warm it, same reason why i didnt insulate the pond, the heat during the day will go through the blocks and for a while store the heat
    I not wishing to come across as rude but that just isn’t the case. I started my career as a structural engineer and thermal mass doesn’t work like that - it needs an insulator on the uncontrolled heat side (ie the ground side of the pond) to maintain a steady and constant thermal temperature (this can be hot or cold) I applied this rule to my house - which is a ample sized 5bed and in the winter months stays between 19-21C. Heating only comes on for about an hour a day and costs an absolute max of £50 in the coldest months on gas. Think about underfloor heating as an example - you put lots and lots of insulation below it, put the UFH pipes down and then screed over the top. This screed then hold the heat and slowly releases it into the house throughout the day and night.

    You won’t get any heat gain from the shower - it will constantly chill the water. See if you can get hold of a thermal detector and look at your pond and filtration through it. You will be shocked!

    edited to add :- you would also benefit from renewing the foil tape as it looks worm and green in the chambers - if you don’t keep the cellular structure closed then it looses its thermal properties as effectively they are exposed to the cold (the lowest ends can be of perforated tape to allow tiny air exchange to reduce condensation.
    Last edited by DiabloDave; 22-09-2020 at 08:46 PM.

  12. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    I not wishing to come across as rude but that just isn’t the case. I started my career as a structural engineer and thermal mass doesn’t work like that - it needs an insulator on the uncontrolled heat side (ie the ground side of the pond) to maintain a steady and constant thermal temperature (this can be hot or cold) I applied this rule to my house - which is a ample sized 5bed and in the winter months stays between 19-21C. Heating only comes on for about an hour a day and costs an absolute max of £50 in the coldest months on gas. Think about underfloor heating as an example - you put lots and lots of insulation below it, put the UFH pipes down and then screed over the top. This screed then hold the heat and slowly releases it into the house throughout the day and night.

    You won’t get any heat gain from the shower - it will constantly chill the water. See if you can get hold of a thermal detector and look at your pond and filtration through it. You will be shocked!

    edited to add :- you would also benefit from renewing the foil tape as it looks worm and green in the chambers - if you don’t keep the cellular structure closed then it looses its thermal properties as effectively they are exposed to the cold (the lowest ends can be of perforated tape to allow tiny air exchange to reduce condensation.

    OK so you are saying heat isnt transferred through concrete blocks? because it most defiantly is. i have checked all these things with an ir thermometer, including the shower, im not just making things up cos im bored did the tape the other day thanks for your advice tho.

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  14. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by sephuk View Post
    OK so you are saying heat isnt transferred through concrete blocks? because it most defiantly is. i have checked all these things with an ir thermometer, including the shower, im not just making things up cos im bored did the tape the other day thanks for your advice tho.
    Please re-read what I have said. It will of course bleed thermal heat - both hot and cold BUT you need insulation to stop it going the wrong way! The ground holds temperature deep down for a long time but not at shallow depth. I noticed your pond is raised so the bottom of your pond is actually relatively rather shallow in the soil thus you get the worst of the gain and loss I’m afraid.

    And I’m sorry but unless your shower is physics defying then it will rarely be gaining heat - especially in a light box like you have that reflects heat - if it were black then it would gain in the sunshine if out the way of a breeze.

    I can only lead a horse to water....I can’t make him drink.
    Last edited by DiabloDave; 22-09-2020 at 09:46 PM.

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  16. #69
    That's not how insulation works though is it, if I had insulated the inside of this pond before fiberglass there would have been no heat transfer through the walls from the outside, it would have stopped the temp of the water being sucked out through the block, yes the shower is a light colour, this still will transfer heat and inside the trays are warmer than the outside temperature, you realise I'm not new to the hobby and this is not my 1st pond don't you? I built my 1st pond well over 20 years ago, I kinda know why and how things work with heat and light being a laser technician. You seem to know alot more about the depths and how the pond works more than me so this is the last I'll post on the matter as this thread has been hijacked apologies to the OP

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  17. #70
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    I’ve got to do that to mine as the foil tapes have got punctured over the summer and there’s condensation in there - thing is I’ve got the 35mm 7 wall ones so it’s going to be hard work to clear. I brought them indoors at the weekend and planning to remove the foils, keep upright (luckily I have nice high ceilings) and then blast a hairdryer from the top down in the hope it will force the droplets out and at the same time dry them out to be re-taped.

    Does anyone know of a better way to get rid of the condensation?
    Hi,

    You should use polycarbonate breather tape not foil. Then there will be no condensation with the tape. The foil seals the unit too much.
    .
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SNH6T..._8SWAFbE19B0DN

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    2700 G Above ground, Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier custom Evolve shower 9kW Thermotech ASHP

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  19. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by jphamill View Post
    Hi,

    You should use polycarbonate breather tape not foil. Then there will be no condensation with the tape. The foil seals the unit too much.
    .
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00SNH6T..._8SWAFbE19B0DN

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    I would normally do this but I’m experimenting this time around. Basically I’m drying out the panels in a room that is 25C, I have two fans at the ends that is pushing the warm air through. Today the wood burner is going on that room with the intention being to bring the room to 29C and maintain 24hrs with the fans still blowing the warm dry air through. Then I’m going to tape up with foil and slowly let the temperature drop down to high teens. I will then tape over again - working on the basis that as the air cools there may be some tenting of the foil.

    The reason for the above is because for breather tape to work well it has to be at the bottom of the sloping panel otherwise it can get moisture in if below a certain angle and you get fogging (think driving rain). Mine sit flat so fogged up more than I wanted.

    If it doesn’t work I’ll try again

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  21. #72
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    I would normally do this but I’m experimenting this time around. Basically I’m drying out the panels in a room that is 25C, I have two fans at the ends that is pushing the warm air through. Today the wood burner is going on that room with the intention being to bring the room to 29C and maintain 24hrs with the fans still blowing the warm dry air through. Then I’m going to tape up with foil and slowly let the temperature drop down to high teens. I will then tape over again - working on the basis that as the air cools there may be some tenting of the foil.

    The reason for the above is because for breather tape to work well it has to be at the bottom of the sloping panel otherwise it can get moisture in if below a certain angle and you get fogging (think driving rain). Mine sit flat so fogged up more than I wanted.

    If it doesn’t work I’ll try again
    Breather tape and edging covers, but that would be difficult to frame i suppose.

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  22. #73
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    I would normally do this but I’m experimenting this time around. Basically I’m drying out the panels in a room that is 25C, I have two fans at the ends that is pushing the warm air through. Today the wood burner is going on that room with the intention being to bring the room to 29C and maintain 24hrs with the fans still blowing the warm dry air through. Then I’m going to tape up with foil and slowly let the temperature drop down to high teens. I will then tape over again - working on the basis that as the air cools there may be some tenting of the foil.

    The reason for the above is because for breather tape to work well it has to be at the bottom of the sloping panel otherwise it can get moisture in if below a certain angle and you get fogging (think driving rain). Mine sit flat so fogged up more than I wanted.

    If it doesn’t work I’ll try again
    Second thought though.
    Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air. There is then the possibility that once you've sealed your sheets, air tight and put them in a cooler environment you will still get condensation occurring.


    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    2700 G Above ground, Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier custom Evolve shower 9kW Thermotech ASHP

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  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by jphamill View Post
    Second thought though.
    Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air. There is then the possibility that once you've sealed your sheets, air tight and put them in a cooler environment you will still get condensation occurring.


    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    I have taken that into consideration - it’s in a part
    of the house that is furthest from shower rooms / bathrooms/ kitchen and utility room so that the warmth from the fire and heating being on has really dried the air in that room - to a point of being in there is uncomfortable on the eyes as they dry out so quickly!

    If it doesn’t work I’ll have another go and see what happens.

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  26. #75
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Wain's Avatar
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    If you created a vacumn within the panel would that stop condensation ?

    I dont know how to but a thought as I read through the threads
    1000 gal
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  28. #76
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wain View Post
    If you created a vacumn within the panel would that stop condensation ?

    I dont know how to but a thought as I read through the threads
    You would stop condensation if you could maintain the seal but you couldn't achieve a real vacuum outside a factory lab ! Also i don't think the polycarbonate cells would not hold their shape. Could implode and make a giant light bulb "pop" as they do so.
    The vacuum will stop much heat transfer but things like glazing units have gases like Argon in them to fill the gap and further reduce heat transmission along with thermoreflective coatings on 5he glass.
    When it comes to the gear that we use for outdoor covers you'll never achieve what we'd like.
    You'll loose heat through every uninsulated surface from conduction convection with air movement and just pure infrared like the heat you feel on your face from a fire.. A decent draft proof polycarbonate cover will probably do as much as we can achieve for outdoor ponds. Lagging pipes and filters will all help but its all small additions, but remember every bit helps..
    Seal the polycarbonate but make sure it, the cells can breathe in all weather or you will get condensation and then some nice green algae inside also with your condensation.

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  30. #77
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Just worked it out only need 2 boards of celotex 50quid off ebay delivered but I'll have a look around see if any where close has it cheaper . I'll pay 50 like tbf . And for what pipe I have on show I might even if I cut every perfect enough celotex to box pipes in !!? . Do people box uv and pumps in water and air ?? Worrying about over heating??
    Ideal 25mm celotex 8x4 . 13.20 including twat . That ll do me nicely
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  32. #78
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Ideal 25mm celotex 8x4 . 13.20 including twat . That ll do me nicely
    Thats quite cheap to get a twat included too
    Your autocorrect and autocomplete must have a contents similar to mine lmao

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  34. #79
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Thats quite cheap to get a twat included too
    Your autocorrect and autocomplete must have a contents similar to mine lmao
    Lol its the same auto thats on my mouth as well tho hahah
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  36. #80
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai sammy66's Avatar
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    Hi guys , done half the pond covers today , the rest is under a roof that has sides to go on soon . its hard keeping the pond at 23c the heaters are working hard at it now . Looks like it will need to drop the temp down early this year or pay the price with the wife over the gas bills

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