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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    PVC pipe warning

    Another warning from me, learn from my mistakes.

    Normal PVC pipe is not suitable for koi ponds, I don't know why 15 years ago when i built my pond i thought it was ok to use normal PVC rather than pressure!! God knows, I've never been one for penny pinching!! I'm an idiot. lol

    Last year my bottom drain diffuser bubbles got slower and slower as the weeks went on, I just assumed the bottom drain diffuser cover was blocked, I bought a new one to swap over but never got round to it, I have 2 air curtains so wasn't overly bothered.

    About 8 weeks ago with the warmer weather I decided to jump in and swap them over, success, turned air pump on, NO bubbles!!! Just heard some gurgling in the ground where the pipe disappears.

    So then decided to start digging around where the pipe goes under ground to the bottom drain.
    I found a 2 foot length of pipe that has split the whole length as it goes down to the base of the pond.

    It had also split at the 90 degree fitting and at the point where it enters the pond slab, I'm assuming because of ground movement.

    While I was digging I hit the 4" PVC bottom drain pipe, whooooosssshhh dumped around 3000g of water in 30 minutes, running around like a headless chicken netting 10 big fish and putting them into a 1300g grow on, I've never panicked so much in my life, flooded the patio, filter room, kitchen, absolute nightmare.

    Managed to jump in and plug the bottom drain after removing the fish and saved 3000g or so!!

    So I've spent around 3 weeks carefully digging and removing soil and concrete with a kango, trying to get to the point where I can repair the pipe and get on with my life and play golf!!! I've now reached the point where it actually disappears into the concrete slab of the pond, and that is where I'm now trying to repair it. I now need a fitting of some sort to glue inside the pipe as I just can't dig anymore!!

    Stupid f..... hobby I've had enough

    Dave



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  3. #2
    Wow, what a nightmare for you.

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  5. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai 0765peter's Avatar
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    Oh mate I cannot imagine the nightmare situation you have found yourself in and really feel for you. So glad I have pressure pipe after reading this. I am unable to offer any advice on how to do what you need to do but hope you can sort it and get back up and running as soon as possible. All the very best with it.

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Jeees. That sounds awful!

    In terms of fixing it, could you slide a 3"pressure pipe into the existing pipe and fit some reducers on the other end to seal it into the bottom drain end of the pipe?

    Not ideal, but i can't see how else you can do it without having to kango up the whole pipe run and re lay fresh pipe and a new bottom drain and then redo the fibre glass (if that's how you've lined your pond).

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    12,500L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Scamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koicarpus View Post
    Another warning from me, learn from my mistakes.

    Normal PVC pipe is not suitable for koi ponds, I don't know why 15 years ago when i built my pond i thought it was ok to use normal PVC rather than pressure!! God knows, I've never been one for penny pinching!! I'm an idiot. lol

    Last year my bottom drain diffuser bubbles got slower and slower as the weeks went on, I just assumed the bottom drain diffuser cover was blocked, I bought a new one to swap over but never got round to it, I have 2 air curtains so wasn't overly bothered.

    About 8 weeks ago with the warmer weather I decided to jump in and swap them over, success, turned air pump on, NO bubbles!!! Just heard some gurgling in the ground where the pipe disappears.

    So then decided to start digging around where the pipe goes under ground to the bottom drain.
    I found a 2 foot length of pipe that has split the whole length as it goes down to the base of the pond.

    It had also split at the 90 degree fitting and at the point where it enters the pond slab, I'm assuming because of ground movement.

    While I was digging I hit the 4" PVC bottom drain pipe, whooooosssshhh dumped around 3000g of water in 30 minutes, running around like a headless chicken netting 10 big fish and putting them into a 1300g grow on, I've never panicked so much in my life, flooded the patio, filter room, kitchen, absolute nightmare.

    Managed to jump in and plug the bottom drain after removing the fish and saved 3000g or so!!

    So I've spent around 3 weeks carefully digging and removing soil and concrete with a kango, trying to get to the point where I can repair the pipe and get on with my life and play golf!!! I've now reached the point where it actually disappears into the concrete slab of the pond, and that is where I'm now trying to repair it. I now need a fitting of some sort to glue inside the pipe as I just can't dig anymore!!

    Stupid f..... hobby I've had enough

    Dave
    Bloody hell, that’s a bad day...sure you’ll sort it ASAP. Hope a
    l goes well..

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai samp09's Avatar
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    Wow what a nightmare, hope you get it sorted quick!

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  13. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, Jason from JBR is going to phone me tomorrow morning, hopefully he can make something that will fit and glue inside the 1.5" pipe. The 4" pipe is now repaired with 2 rubber boot couplers and a small length of pipe where I hit it with the spade, pond is full and maybe the fish can return to the pond in a few days.
    1 thing i have learned is that when the air pump is off the Spindrifter bottom drain diffuser closes with pressure from the water and doesn't let any water through!

  14. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    Personally, I see nothing wrong with using subsoil 4" PVC for ponds. I used it extensively for my pond to filter runs, but you have to install it as per the building regulations that govern the installation with housing.

    Once the gullys have been dug, the pipes have to be bedded in pea stone to stop any problems if there is any ground movement, after all there are no pressure issues with gravity systems that most of us run.

    I think that if the gullies are just back filled in with soil then yes I could see that could be a problem. For 4" PVC pipe to split there has to be an installation issue somewhere.

  15. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Exactly what I did mate, pea shingle surrounding the pipes. But strange also how the pipe split down the length

  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    I'm intending to go down the pea shingle backfill. Although temperature expansion isn't going to cause a problem, any shifting of earth and the shifting between the concreted fixed point (pond slab/walls) and the filter point - in the garage (concrete slab) would stress the pipes. If you've concreted the filter uprises on a long run then any ground movement doesn't have anywhere togo. This is why I considered the pea shingle idea without concreting the up pipes.

    Surely a pressure pipe, it's not a matter of IF if breaks but how much longer it will take to break? Drainage being cheaper breaks faster.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai davethefish1's Avatar
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    i used 110mm drainage pipe on my last pond 1990-2000 and on my current pond...
    splodge of concrete to hold the BD in place and back filled with earth for the rest.
    never had any problems...

    the building regs ask for various methods of general pipe bedding, and plastic drainage pipe is classed as flexible pipe.
    a 2 or 3 mtr length of 110mm will flex a long way before failing and will allow for quite a lot of ground movement.
    ...but not when it's encased in solid concrete.

    so if laying a concrete slab with a drain fixed through it, then i would use pressure plastic every time.
    as the concrete will subject the pipe to powerful stresses just due to expansion and contraction.
    as well as any heave due to the slab or surrounding soil settling after the build.


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  19. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Certainly does sound like a total nightmare.

    There was a heated argument on here about this type of pipe once, and whilst I didn't get involved the argument for using PVC drainage pipe looked fairly solid. The guy arguing in favour of it was a lone voice, but absolutely certain everyone on here were mugs unnecessarily paying for overpriced pressure pipe which is just a con.

    He then drove over some in his 6 tonne digger and posted the pics to prove it wasn't leaking. In the end he kinda got hounded off here although he was a little obnoxious.

    Just goes to show that the PVC pipe is probably fine but isn't as forgiving as pressure pipe if your installation isn't 100% bang on.

 

 

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