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Thread: Filter help

  1. #1

    Filter help

    Hi I am new here so not sure if I am posting in the correct place but would like some advice regarding filters and keeping water clear
    i have had my current pond about 10 years now it’s about 2000 gallons walled construction fully fibreglassed with bottom drain feeding out via gravity to run through a ceus sieve then drawn out by external pump through a bioforce filter then back into the pond
    I also have a skimmer keeping the surface clear pulling out water then pumping back in past a uv light .
    The frustrating problem I have is clear water it just will not consistently keep clear, when I first set up the pond 10 years back I had a pressure type bead system that I brought from a friend who swore by these I never got on with this system and could not keep the water clear so about 5 years ago after speaking to my local dealer brought the bioforce filter I was very unsure at first as how could a £400 filter work for my pond I was always under the impression that it had to cost mega money to be good,but my supplier said give it a go it will clear you pond so being at the end of my tether with this I got the bioforce and replaced the bead system with it .
    After about a week my pond was crystal clear could see the bottom everything so I was well chuffed ,then I was unfortunately taken ill and spent almost a year recovering so aside from feeding the koi the pond was a little neglected water like pea soup again.
    As things improved for me I tried cleaning out the filter but still green water so brought some new media to go in the filter but still no joy so just maintained things as normal but with green water only seeing the fish if they came to the top.
    This past year I have been in a position to give much more attention to the pond so have been on a quest to get the water clear again which involved me getting another bioforce as it cleared the water before so now with more time to clean it every few days etc hoped I could stay on top of things but after a month of clear water it is now going green again and I can see I am losing the battle again, the pond is exposed to the sunlight and where it is a full shelter is not really an option on really sunny days I put a giant umbrella over the pond in an attempt to stop the green but it’s not working.
    Does anyone here know of a filter system that will not break the bank but also keep the water clear or any advice would be welcome as I do not want to do away with the pond but if it’s just a green mess all the time then it’s not much of a joy
    Any advice much appreciated



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,

    Regrettably filters on the whole do not operate successfully to the manufacturers claims - which from a Retail perspective is really frustrating.

    I started off years ago with a 1500 gallon pond and a bioforce which struggled (even with a roof) and the koi soon had bacterial issues. I had listened to a pond section of a garden centre which was a mistake from the off.

    Given the size of your pond and assuming drums are out of the question.... I would suggest a Nexus if you have the space and access to the garden. I would always exercise caution around used electrical products, however the Nexus is a non electrical item and has no moving parts so usually a safe used bet - they pop up regular on e bay as you may have already seen.

    In addition to the Nexus you will need a decent UV. I can’t recall the UV wattage in the Bioforce off hand, however I would suggest a minimum of 40w if your pond is constantly in the sun (well when it is out...).

    Other members will undoubtedly have their views too, so hopefully some food for thought and options shortly.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    Does the bulb in the UV need changing .
    Where are you located Chris, somebody might be willing to have a look at your set up and give you some ideas / advice

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  6. #4
    The 1st thing I would try changing is the UV, if it worked great at 1st then it should work ok again provided you get a new bulb.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    UV bulb is definitely the first port of call as these should be changed annually.
    If that fails then Gaz advice is spot on.

    It really bothers me when I see people spending money on filters that are just crap.

    Problem is most retail outlets like those in garden centres have no clue what they're selling and are just targeted on volume sales of a particular brand.

    Even the higher quality filters have highly exaggerated marketing materials.

    I'm currently running a filter advertised for 15000 litre ponds on my 550 litre wildlife pond which has no fish. It really struggles to keep the water clear.

    The other problem is that outside of forums like this the information available online or from retail outlets is very confusing, then the whole gravity versus pump fed thing is another minefield.

    When I see people spending £300 on a nasty pressure filter in a garden centre there's a part of me that wants to run over and tell them not to buy it!

    All it does is damage the hobby because people just give up with it.


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Rate of waste delivered at a water flow rate. It’s not enough state clean water as flow rate.

    That with two pressure filters before moving to a drum+bio. Which is still is buying technology to what is a natural problem.

    Mechanical is x amount of waste per litre, maximum rate vs load in filter.

    Bio is x rate of NH3, NO2 conversion vs litre of through put vs media load/type.

  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KevT's Avatar
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    Hi

    Agree with the guys - pressure filters just can't cope with Koi - if you search Lee Calladine on Youtube he is from the "Japanese Water Gardens" and he has uploaded a video called " Cheap Koi Filters" this principle is what I use only thing is I have filled it with K1 - it is very effective / easy to clean you don't need to "boil" K1 with air I use a big spoon and it soon separates the muck from the K1. I flush it to waste once a week and have it running into a home made shower - the shower really is excellent bio - I have lava rock in the shower and Mimulus plants in the top of the shower as a veg filter. I do run a UV but only 10w and have never had green water / I also put a sock on the shower return if the fines are getting a bit obvious - these are the bits the fish pick of the sides when grazing

    I would have had a bottom drain, but due to a sewer pipe from the house going across the pond I was forced to using a pumped / retro bottom drain - I think it works great, my set up is as above and I have even got an air stone on the retro bottom drain which definitely makes a difference as it appears to draws things into the bottom drain

    KevT
    Last edited by KevT; 03-07-2020 at 06:26 PM. Reason: adding more info

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  13. #8
    Thanks for the comments guys gives me some food for thought
    I contacted a reputable supplier today and had a chat with him he has advised that I look at a oase profi clear drum filter a little on the expensive side but would stretch to one if I thought it would give me clear water does anyone have any thoughts on this product or anyone using one if so would be interested to hear your thoughts

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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    I’m an Oase fan mate. I run the large profi on my pond and it’s been faultless. The drum will take the mechanicals and the k1 the biological - clear water though will come from a UV (mainly).

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris cw View Post
    Thanks for the comments guys gives me some food for thought
    I contacted a reputable supplier today and had a chat with him he has advised that I look at a oase profi clear drum filter a little on the expensive side but would stretch to one if I thought it would give me clear water does anyone have any thoughts on this product or anyone using one if so would be interested to hear your thoughts
    If it's in your budget then yes, this would be a perfect solution. I don't know much about the proficlear, but any ponds I've seen them running on have been crystal clear.

    Don't forget if going down that route you'll need to also buy a UV if your current one is integrated with your existing filter.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai bicolormoth's Avatar
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    Chris, i have switched my filtration from a Nexus to a drum + bio tank. , you wouldn't believe the difference in just 3 weeks., from a thick green goo to almost completely clear. another 2 weeks and i am sure it will be like tap water. (without the chlorine)
    5000g, Drum Filter/Gravity, + MBB, Skimmer-Sieve-Shower.

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  21. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris cw View Post
    I contacted a reputable supplier today and had a chat with him he has advised that I look at a oase profi clear drum filter a little on the expensive side but would stretch to one if I thought it would give me clear water does anyone have any thoughts on this product or anyone using one if so would be interested to hear your thoughts
    Hi Chris, I've just installed an Oase ProfiClear Compact M - and I love it! Oase stuff is pricey, but it's beautifully made, well thought through and the Tech support staff are great. Lost count of the amount of calls I made to them during lockdown when I was trying to work out what system would fit in my filter house with the existing bottom drain pipework etc. Their support, even though all working from home, has been faultless. Having said that though - my Profi replaced my Nexus 220 + Draco Drum Drop In... which means that is now for sale! May be worth a look in case replacing the UV bulb doesn't fix your problems ... here's my post for it: https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-pond-equipment-sale/26460-sale-nexus-220-draco-drum-55w.html
    11,440L Raised Pond, BD, Oase ProfiClear, Bitron 55W, 2x10k Aquaforte Varios, Skimmer to Waterblade

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    The algae bloom (green stuff) needs 2 conditions to persist - sunlight has been mentioned (some shade proved ineffective) but no mention so far about the nitrate it feeds on.

    An efficient UV doesn't cure it, just flocculates the particles so that the filter can trap them (but an easy and useful first step).

    Chris, use the search function to read up on anoxic filtration. If you can find room for a small auxiliary pond / tank to install anoxic baskets the outlay will be much less than new equipment.

    There will still be some nitrate due to the biological function of the pressure filter but once the baskets have matured you could consider the modification suggested by KevT above. The anoxic baskets will replace the shower Kev uses.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  25. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jampot View Post
    The algae bloom (green stuff) needs 2 conditions to persist - sunlight has been mentioned (some shade proved ineffective) but no mention so far about the nitrate it feeds on.

    An efficient UV doesn't cure it, just flocculates the particles so that the filter can trap them (but an easy and useful first step).

    Chris, use the search function to read up on anoxic filtration. If you can find room for a small auxiliary pond / tank to install anoxic baskets the outlay will be much less than new equipment.

    There will still be some nitrate due to the biological function of the pressure filter but once the baskets have matured you could consider the modification suggested by KevT above. The anoxic baskets will replace the shower Kev uses.

    Jim
    What is funny is that Algae loves Nitrate.. and what does normal bio filters convert everything to... Nitrate. Great for plants and algae.. and companies wanting to sell anti-algae devices/treatments.

    Get the fundamental chemical process right - reduction of ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, and the algae looks after itself (the fish like to chomp some algae too). Get it wrong and all the pond owner ends up doing is in an ever increasing spiral of cost that the companies are pandering to their "needs" or plan B - replace the water.. if that's the case then why do we need filtration in the first place?
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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