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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai RipleyRich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    Attachment 32833
    This is the pond in question. I believe I lost fish to the same sort of issue before I put the coping stones on. I wonder if Tom is on to something in regards to the test kit as I have not had any spikes really with mine ammonia wise so if anyone can recommend a good kit? I will look into Virkon tablets Rich, what exactly do they do? I also have salt available but I don't really want to put anything in the pond if I am honest. I just want it to establish itself well. I also think the presence of previous treatments may be an issue however its not been a case of one to the other on a weekly basis there has been time (weeks) and water changes between. I have 200 Litres of crystal bio glass media in my filter which is a lot to mature too but I would have thought once matured it would be more than adequate for the pond.
    Virkon S was produced to help fight KHV.It lowers Bad Bacteria and waterborne pathogens

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-pack-Vi...cAAOSwuyNbFR6n

    .

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  3. #22
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    Just reading this with interest...

    My thoughts are that if your parameters, ammonia and nitrite are good, then the water is good for fish to live in quite happily.
    So there is something else killing you fish. Nitrates even at a high reading won't kill your fish as quickly as is happening, ie they will get ulcer and skin issues well before they die.
    Also muck on the bottom and in suspension will also not kill the fish quickly, as if that leads to bacterial issues, again you will see skin problems well before the fish die.

    There maybe something more going on. My first feeling is that if you are only changing 10% of you water a week, then with the amount of chemicals you have put into the pond, the treatments are not cleared before the next you are putting in. remember all the treatments are poison to fish, and we only get away with not killing them with correct dosing, so if the chemicals are building up then this will certainly kill small fish, and pinecone issues can be attributed to poisons in the water.

    Secondly, are you 100% sure the fiberglass is cured , as even a small area uncured will leach chemicals that will kill fish very quickly. I had this problem with my first glassed pond, with fish fatalities, and was told to drop the water a couple of feet and check for sticky areas of fibreglass, and sure enough there was a patch uncured. Had it recovered and no more problems.

    So I would certainly up your trickle rate to 20-30% for a while and no more treatments, but also don't discount the fibreglass, because this does happen. even with experienced installers as mine was.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishplanetkoi View Post
    Just reading this with interest...

    My thoughts are that if your parameters, ammonia and nitrite are good, then the water is good for fish to live in quite happily.
    So there is something else killing you fish. Nitrates even at a high reading won't kill your fish as quickly as is happening, ie they will get ulcer and skin issues well before they die.
    Also muck on the bottom and in suspension will also not kill the fish quickly, as if that leads to bacterial issues, again you will see skin problems well before the fish die.

    There maybe something more going on. My first feeling is that if you are only changing 10% of you water a week, then with the amount of chemicals you have put into the pond, the treatments are not cleared before the next you are putting in. remember all the treatments are poison to fish, and we only get away with not killing them with correct dosing, so if the chemicals are building up then this will certainly kill small fish, and pinecone issues can be attributed to poisons in the water.

    Secondly, are you 100% sure the fiberglass is cured , as even a small area uncured will leach chemicals that will kill fish very quickly. I had this problem with my first glassed pond, with fish fatalities, and was told to drop the water a couple of feet and check for sticky areas of fibreglass, and sure enough there was a patch uncured. Had it recovered and no more problems.

    So I would certainly up your trickle rate to 20-30% for a while and no more treatments, but also don't discount the fibreglass, because this does happen. even with experienced installers as mine was.


    Thank you for the response. The pond was fibreglassed on the 13th of November which was a cold day, however it was not filled up for a few weeks at least as I didn't put the window in till the end of November then left that a week or so to go off before then adding water if I remember correctly. I do remember there was a small patch about the size of a 50p where the fibreglass was a little sticky on the bottom as it rained a day or 2 after the fibreglassing and although the pond was covered water still got in a little. however I dried this area when I spotted it then left it a few days before using a big blob of CT1 and smoothing it over the patch entirely so it was completely covered to be sure. The strange thing is the first 2 fish I added are still going strong which were both 16cm tosai, I would have thought given how sensitive tosai are, they would have been long gone as apposed to others that have been added more recently. Is there a way I could have my water tested to get a breakdown over everything that is in there to then see what is present that shouldn't be?

  6. #24
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipleyRich View Post
    Virkon S was produced to help fight KHV.It lowers Bad Bacteria and waterborne pathogens

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-pack-Vi...cAAOSwuyNbFR6n

    .
    ordered some thank you.

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  8. #25
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samp09 View Post
    Thank you for the response. The pond was fibreglassed on the 13th of November which was a cold day, however it was not filled up for a few weeks at least as I didn't put the window in till the end of November then left that a week or so to go off before then adding water if I remember correctly. I do remember there was a small patch about the size of a 50p where the fibreglass was a little sticky on the bottom as it rained a day or 2 after the fibreglassing and although the pond was covered water still got in a little. however I dried this area when I spotted it then left it a few days before using a big blob of CT1 and smoothing it over the patch entirely so it was completely covered to be sure. The strange thing is the first 2 fish I added are still going strong which were both 16cm tosai, I would have thought given how sensitive tosai are, they would have been long gone as apposed to others that have been added more recently. Is there a way I could have my water tested to get a breakdown over everything that is in there to then see what is present that shouldn't be?
    I am sure there must be a test for toxins in water, so maybe someone will know. I wouldn't worry about the treatment chemicals as the water changes will deal with that.

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  10. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Just to update, no more losses yet but the mirror carp which is the largest fish in the pond, hasn't eaten the last few days and usually is ridiculously greedy. also one of her barbules has turned white. she had a bit of a ulcer on the bottom lip which is gradually healing up so on one side she's getting better but her behaviour has changed negatively. I got some virkon tablets which have finally arrived so the plan is to do the routine water change and add them then continue to monitor the pond.

    If this doesn't seem to clear the issue up or see improvements I am thinking that maybe the fibreglass hadn't gone off on the base or something entirely and is leeching into the pond. I just feel that the issue is far too serious for it to be anything less sinister. I thought the initial loses could have been due to the temp when added and the constant swinging temperatures combined with NPS but now it seems unlikely.

    If I was to try sort this what would be the protocol? My thoughts were put the fish in a temp swimming pool or whatever although dont know what I could use as a filter for it and pump but could get an airstone in no issue. Then use the swimming pool bush to clean the walls etc inside as the water drains out and empty the pond entirely. Then what would I have to do? Leave it empty for a few days to ensure its completely dry to make sure ever thing has gone off or would I need to have the pond recoated in something? Anything recommended to clean the pond to make sure its in the best possible condition before re filling? Had enough of the issues and worrying about coming home from work to another casualty now, especially as fish have fin issues etc currently

  11. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Just to update again today, I done a test on the tap water and pond which resulted in:

    POND TAP
    Ammonia 0.0 - 0.2
    Nitrite trace - 0
    Nitrate 0 - 5.0
    PH 8 - 7
    KH 8 drops - 10 drops
    GH 17 - 20

    So from the tap I am getting ammonia and nitrate however the rest is thereabouts. I done a 2400l water change today and after added some virkon tablets diluted into 10 litres of water and trickled into the vortex part of my filter gradually and a little directly into the skimmer line. Just hope this does the Job reducing the nasties in the pond and gets it on track again as I really don't want to have to empty it out and deep clean it and search for something seeping in.

  12. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    How's the pond Sam? Did the virkon do the trick?

    I hope you don't have to go through the palava of draining down and redoing the top coat.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  14. #29
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Hey Tom, Virkon don't seem to have made any difference. My beni Kikokuryu is looking ropey at best . Think I will have to do the drain. Ricey74 has messaged me to help and pointed out when I got the pond finished I never flushed it out before filling so at the earliest opportunity I will get a paddling pool and airstone in it with the fish so I can empty the pond out. I may make a strong mix of virkon liquid to clean all the inside of the pond with then rinse and empty again before re filling. obviously check the pond for any spots that may have not gone off too although if its not too expensive I may get the flow coat re done

  15. #30
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Well if you are going ahead with that, I hope for your sake that it finally sorts it.

    Ive got my fingers crossed for you.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  17. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Same mate hope you sort it.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  19. #32
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I hope so too it saps the enthusiasm when you can't resolve the problem

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