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Thread: Jpd Shori

  1. #1

    Jpd Shori

    Anyone use this?

    Any good?



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Never heard of it before.

    None of the sellers list the ingredients which is a pain, but managed to find them:

    Fish Meal, Krill Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Cake, Corn, Gluten Meal, Defatted Rice Bran, Fish Oil, Calcium Phosphate, Garlic Powder, Salt, Toyoserin (Probiotics), Astaxanthin, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B12, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid, Biotin, Para Amino Benzoic Acid, Inositol, Heat-resistant Vitamin C, Vitamin K3, Choline), Minerals (Ferric Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Carbonate, Zinc Carbonate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Magnesium Carbonate).

    Ingredients are generally listed in order of volume but you can never be sure as its not regulated as far as I know.

    There will always be someone swearing by a particular brand that isn't well known to us. FD food has some die hard loyalists.


    I read somewhere that "Japanese" food that isn't manufactured in Japan isn't worth paying extra for and whilst that food looks good value compared to other Japanese foods, it is made in Philippines and not Japan.

    The JPD Shori ingredients are the same as those in some of the Kusuri foods although the Kusuri foods that contain Astaxanthin are more expensive.

    I'm currently feeding Saki foods from the eBay seller who repackages and sells cheap; £72 for 5kg Growth delivered, (£64 for 5kg Saki Balance delivered); Still more than JPD Shori mind.

    Maybe give it a try in case you're onto something good there.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 19-07-2019 at 09:59 PM.

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Never heard of it before.

    None of the sellers list the ingredients which is a pain, but managed to find them:

    Fish Meal, Krill Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Cake, Corn, Gluten Meal, Defatted Rice Bran, Fish Oil, Calcium Phosphate, Garlic Powder, Salt, Toyoserin (Probiotics), Astaxanthin, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B12, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid, Biotin, Para Amino Benzoic Acid, Inositol, Heat-resistant Vitamin C, Vitamin K3, Choline), Minerals (Ferric Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Carbonate, Zinc Carbonate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Magnesium Carbonate).

    Ingredients are generally listed in order of volume but you can never be sure as its not regulated as far as I know.

    There will always be someone swearing by a particular brand that isn't well known to us. FD food has some die hard loyalists.


    I read somewhere that "Japanese" food that isn't manufactured in Japan isn't worth paying extra for and whilst that food looks good value compared to other Japanese foods, it is made in Philippines and not Japan.

    The JPD Shori ingredients are the same as those in some of the Kusuri foods although the Kusuri foods that contain Astaxanthin are more expensive.

    I'm currently feeding Saki foods from the eBay seller who repackages and sells cheap; £72 for 5kg Growth delivered, (£64 for 5kg Saki Balance delivered); Still more than JPD Shori mind.

    Maybe give it a try in case you're onto something good there.
    Although I do have some nice fish now, I couldn't justify the price of saki. Using 3/4 of a kilo a day will get expensive real fast.


    I have not decided to purchase it yet, but reading threads about it with people saying "The white are now fluorescent" has kind of set a hook lol.

    I shall see if I can find more info 1st.

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  6. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Never heard of it before.

    None of the sellers list the ingredients which is a pain, but managed to find them:

    Fish Meal, Krill Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Cake, Corn, Gluten Meal, Defatted Rice Bran, Fish Oil, Calcium Phosphate, Garlic Powder, Salt, Toyoserin (Probiotics), Astaxanthin, Vitamins (Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B12, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid, Biotin, Para Amino Benzoic Acid, Inositol, Heat-resistant Vitamin C, Vitamin K3, Choline), Minerals (Ferric Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Carbonate, Zinc Carbonate, Cobalt Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Magnesium Carbonate).

    Ingredients are generally listed in order of volume but you can never be sure as its not regulated as far as I know.

    There will always be someone swearing by a particular brand that isn't well known to us. FD food has some die hard loyalists.


    I read somewhere that "Japanese" food that isn't manufactured in Japan isn't worth paying extra for and whilst that food looks good value compared to other Japanese foods, it is made in Philippines and not Japan.

    The JPD Shori ingredients are the same as those in some of the Kusuri foods although the Kusuri foods that contain Astaxanthin are more expensive.

    I'm currently feeding Saki foods from the eBay seller who repackages and sells cheap; £72 for 5kg Growth delivered, (£64 for 5kg Saki Balance delivered); Still more than JPD Shori mind.

    Maybe give it a try in case you're onto something good there.



    Where abouts did you see it was made in the Philippines as on the website it says made in Japan.

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Queni are certainly doing their bit to market the food:

    https://quenikoiblog.co.uk/2016/05/08/the-power-of-jpd/

    Would have been nice to see a before and after shot of Koi that were moved from another food onto the JPD as opposed to Koi that have been exclusively fed on it as you'll never really know if the Koi may have turned out like that anyway.

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  10. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai davec's Avatar
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    I use the new shogun and kiyomuzi adult if thatís by same company but not tried the shori high growth I personally donít feed growth food at all suppose I would though if I had a pond full of tosai


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  12. #7
    Selective Koi sales Nr Norwich are the main importers of Jpd food, and being close I have tried most of the Jpd stuff, including the Shori. Not sure it brought the white out as much as they advertise, but maybe you need very good white on your fish to start with...ie its not going to make off white/grey fish into stunners.

    I am now on the Kiyomuzi, which they also import. As far as I am concerned it is every bit as good as Saki, has the same oily feel as Saki, whereas most of the Jpd seems to be more dry/dusty feel. Not that it makes much difference I suppose, but fines seem much less since I have been using the Kiyomuzi as it was when I was using Saki.

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  14. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishplanetkoi View Post
    Selective Koi sales Nr Norwich are the main importers of Jpd food, and being close I have tried most of the Jpd stuff, including the Shori. Not sure it brought the white out as much as they advertise, but maybe you need very good white on your fish to start with...ie its not going to make off white/grey fish into stunners.

    I am now on the Kiyomuzi, which they also import. As far as I am concerned it is every bit as good as Saki, has the same oily feel as Saki, whereas most of the Jpd seems to be more dry/dusty feel. Not that it makes much difference I suppose, but fines seem much less since I have been using the Kiyomuzi as it was when I was using Saki.



    I may give that a try then, but why is it only available in 7kg bags?

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  16. #9
    I got some jpd shori and so far so good. I have only been using it since Saturday but the amount of fines in the pond has reduced and the fish are keen on it. Obviously it's to early yet to be giving a good opinion but the bags seemed to be vac sealed and had no dust in.

    The pellet size is also decent, 4mm allows the smaller fish to feed no probs and is big enough for the larger fish to not look with disgust.

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  18. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kikokuryu John View Post
    I got some jpd shori and so far so good. I have only been using it since Saturday but the amount of fines in the pond has reduced and the fish are keen on it. Obviously it's to early yet to be giving a good opinion but the bags seemed to be vac sealed and had no dust in.

    The pellet size is also decent, 4mm allows the smaller fish to feed no probs and is big enough for the larger fish to not look with disgust.
    Been feeding JPD Shogun along with Hikari Wheatgerm really impressed with it.
    Built not bought!

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  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Dave,

    The JPD Shogun doesn't appear to be listed on the JPD website.

    Is it one of these labelled up differently?


    Home Page ¬Ľ JPD Koi

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  22. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Dave,

    The JPD Shogun doesn't appear to be listed on the JPD website.

    Is it one of these labelled up differently?


    Home Page ¬Ľ JPD Koi
    No its readily available, picked up a bag with the Hikari from Chris the other week. Probably a rename on their all season

    JPD.jpg
    Built not bought!

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  24. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kikokuryu John View Post
    I got some jpd shori and so far so good. I have only been using it since Saturday but the amount of fines in the pond has reduced and the fish are keen on it. Obviously it's to early yet to be giving a good opinion but the bags seemed to be vac sealed and had no dust in.

    The pellet size is also decent, 4mm allows the smaller fish to feed no probs and is big enough for the larger fish to not look with disgust.
    Hi John,

    Interested in how you're getting on with the JPD food so far?


    Since your original post I've been reading various articles and became convinced that Saki foods are the best but started to question that when I discovered a number of forum posts came from people with a vested interest. They may have even been associated directly with Hikari.

    No doubt about it the Saki facility and production process is very impressive, and this interview with 2 guys from the Saki research institute is an interesting read, especially the bit about Saki Growth having 120% efficiency, which means for every 100 grams fed, under the right conditions, Koi can add 120 grams of weight!

    Another interesting part is where they suggest mixing Saki Growth with a colour food to help maintain colours, whereas everywhere else you read says Saki foods shouldn't be mixed or you'll lose the benefits.

    https://www.hikari.info/topics/pdf/inter_sakihikari.pdf


    But then I noticed the Ash content on Saki Growth is a whopping 17%. That means 17% of the food is non-digestible.

    So now I'm confused.... You feed 100 grams of food, 17 grams of which cannot be digested, and get 120 grams of growth from the Koi?

    Obviously I'm a layman and this is out of my depth, but I couldn't find any info to explain that anomaly.


    Then whilst reading up on the JPD foods I came across this on Queni Kois' blog which doesn't answer the confusion, but demonstrates my thinking isn't far off the mark about the percentage of Ash in food:

    https://quenikoiblog.co.uk/2016/05/0...ed-and-proven/


    Since feeding nothing but Saki Growth (obviously some treats in between) I've noticed the following changes to my Koi:

    All the Koi have grown well, some really well, and 1 has grown very well but also got too fat.
    Whites are yellowing.
    Shiro Utsuri is losing Sumi, close to losing too much on the head.
    Lemon Hariwake has lost all his lemon (gutted)
    Hi Utsuri is looking amazing, perfect sumi, bright cherry red beni and an attractive shape.

    Saki Growth has certainly improved growth, but big Koi aren't so good if they lose all their variety specific features.


    I was surprised at the very long list of Japanese breeders who use JPD foods, whether that's a marketing exercise by JPD (selling cheap or giving away to obtain endorsements) I don't know.

    At £46 for 5kg of JPD Yamato (Colour enhancer) I've decided to give it a try and will mix it in with the Saki Growth up until temps drop below 18C, then feed the Yamato down to 12C, then Kusuri multi-season throughout winter.

    I'll update to see if there's been any improvement in Shiroji by the end of September.


    EDIT:
    Forgot to add why all this is relevant to your original post. JPD Shori is both a growth food and a colour enhancer, so it could seek to resolve the weakening colouration issues I appear to have using solely Saki Hikari Growth.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 12-08-2019 at 06:10 PM.

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  26. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Hi John,

    Interested in how you're getting on with the JPD food so far?


    Since your original post I've been reading various articles and became convinced that Saki foods are the best but started to question that when I discovered a number of forum posts came from people with a vested interest. They may have even been associated directly with Hikari.

    No doubt about it the Saki facility and production process is very impressive, and this interview with 2 guys from the Saki research institute is an interesting read, especially the bit about Saki Growth having 120% efficiency, which means for every 100 grams fed, under the right conditions, Koi can add 120 grams of weight!

    Another interesting part is where they suggest mixing Saki Growth with a colour food to help maintain colours, whereas everywhere else you read says Saki foods shouldn't be mixed or you'll lose the benefits.

    https://www.hikari.info/topics/pdf/inter_sakihikari.pdf


    But then I noticed the Ash content on Saki Growth is a whopping 17%. That means 17% of the food is non-digestible.

    So now I'm confused.... You feed 100 grams of food, 17 grams of which cannot be digested, and get 120 grams of growth from the Koi?

    Obviously I'm a layman and this is out of my depth, but I couldn't find any info to explain that anomaly.


    Then whilst reading up on the JPD foods I came across this on Queni Kois' blog which doesn't answer the confusion, but demonstrates my thinking isn't far off the mark about the percentage of Ash in food:

    https://quenikoiblog.co.uk/2016/05/0...ed-and-proven/


    Since feeding nothing but Saki Growth (obviously some treats in between) I've noticed the following changes to my Koi:

    All the Koi have grown well, some really well, and 1 has grown very well but also got too fat.
    Whites are yellowing.
    Shiro Utsuri is losing Sumi, close to losing too much on the head.
    Lemon Hariwake has lost all his lemon (gutted)
    Hi Utsuri is looking amazing, perfect sumi, bright cherry red beni and an attractive shape.

    Saki Growth has certainly improved growth, but big Koi aren't so good if they lose all their variety specific features.


    I was surprised at the very long list of Japanese breeders who use JPD foods, whether that's a marketing exercise by JPD (selling cheap or giving away to obtain endorsements) I don't know.

    At £46 for 5kg of JPD Yamato (Colour enhancer) I've decided to give it a try and will mix it in with the Saki Growth up until temps drop below 18C, then feed the Yamato down to 12C, then Kusuri multi-season throughout winter.

    I'll update to see if there's been any improvement in Shiroji by the end of September.


    EDIT:
    Forgot to add why all this is relevant to your original post. JPD Shori is both a growth food and a colour enhancer, so it could seek to resolve the weakening colouration issues I appear to have using solely Saki Hikari Growth.


    I've not been using it that long but so far I'm happy with it. I think it states after about 10 days you should notice the improvement, I wasn't holding my breath for a miracle as all I wanted was a better quality of food than I was using which it does appear to be. What I can say for sure though is that a sanke (10year oldish Israel)that was past yellowing and more brown has actually improved and appears white again after 2 weeks on jpd, sure it's not show quality but perhaps with time it will improve further.

    The past week has seen temps drop quite a lot so I'm thinking once the shori is finished I shall get some of the other stuff, all season or maybe the health version. I really wanted to try saki next year but after the yellowing you describe I shall give it a miss and feed jpd for the full season unless some other miracle koi food appears on the market.

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  28. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Don't let what I said put you off the Saki.

    In all fairness the Shiro was never bright white to begin with, and if the Shiroji can be recovered then the yellowing on this food isn't a great concern.
    White Doitsu Koi haven't yellowed at all, and some Koi like the Hi Utsuri have notably improved in lustre and colour. Small Koi that didn't grow last year suddenly started growing.

    What can't be recovered is the fact my Hariwake lost all its yellow and although it was already weak in places it accelerated as soon as I started feeding Saki.
    The sumi on the Shiro has never changed since I bought her at Tosai, but the loss of Sumi also started exactly when I changed to Saki growth.



    The ingredients on Shori are very similar to those on Yamato, hardly any difference.
    The Yamato, being a colour food, actually has less vitamin C and less Astaxanthin than the Shori, but it is significantly cheaper.

    Mixing Yamato with Saki Growth (which I already have 5KG of to use up) should in theory give a perfect all round food. We'll soon see if that's a reality.

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    Received the JPD Yamato today.

    The ingredients and vitamin levels on the packet are different to those stated on their website which is a bit strange.

    Some for the better, others not.

    For example,
    website says Astaxanthin 8mg/kg, but packet says 25mg/kg (which is 1/3 more than the much more expensive Shori).
    website says vitamin D3 is 1000 IU/kg, but packet says 2.3 IU/kg

    And most sellers/dealers don't list the actual ingredients but those who do have 3 main ingredients as:

    1) Fish Meal
    2) Cuttlefish Meal
    3) Wheat Flower

    But the packet has:

    1) Wheat
    2) Fish Meal
    3) Soya


    Does that seem strange?

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  32. #17
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    Well, I've been doing a bit of research and found something interesting.

    Anyone with JPD food have a look on the back of the packet and look for a code.

    The code on mine is: DE 05166014713

    This is the factory code, and after a quick search I discover my expensive JPD food didn't come from Japan at all, it came from Germany. Not only that, there's a few places that sell the exact same food as unbranded pellets for less than half the price! Except they don't ship to Britain.

    https://premofisch.de/koifutter/premofisch-koifutter/


    A bit more research and I have found the actual factory on Google Maps.

    The factory name????

    COPPENS.

    I'm sure I've read of loads of people here who are feeding Coppens food.


    And you can buy 15kg of Coppens growth food in the UK for £58 which is around £90 cheaper than JPD Shori.

    With Saki Hikari you know where you stand - all the food comes from the same factory in Japan.

    But having found what I have about my JPD food, would this put others off paying a premium for branded food like it is putting me off?


    Anyone with JPD food please let us know if you have that factory code on your packaging..... just in case I'm the only one lol.

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  34. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Coppens am sure is what stuffyrat is using and am going to start using they mix one . At really a good price so is yours really going to be 5x better food ?? For 5x the price

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    Johnathan

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  36. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Coppens am sure is what stuffyrat is using and am going to start using they mix one . At really a good price so is yours really going to be 5x better food ?? For 5x the price

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

    Its the same food mate.

    Been through every detail.

    Same ingredients.

    Same vitamins, just a few small differences in the amounts.

    Even the Astaxanthin for colouration, its the same.

    JPD in the EU all seems to come from Coppens, but more than 3x the price!


    If you can find this number on your packet of JPD food, then it is Coppens food in fancy packaging: DE 05166014713

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  38. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Steve said he uses it with good results so as it's the same there is even more good results for the feed so I'll definitely be getting some sorry that you have ended up paying 3x the price but that bloody marketing for you it's always out there to get some one no matter how careful they are its happens in every thing day to day from koi to cars

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    Johnathan

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