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Thread: UV warning

  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    UV warning

    I’ve been a bit blazae in the past with the UV in the drum. I’m fully aware of the dangers, just this time I pushed my luck.
    Came home from holiday properly jet lagged and noticed the drum was a little clogged up with blanket weed so decided to unclog it before hitting the sack. Ended up spending an hour picking bits of blanket weed out of the drum while stupidly not unplugging the UV.
    Woke up a few times that night with a massive burning sensation in my eyes. In the morning my eyes felt like they were on fire, they were very red, puffy and watery, it hurt to blink. I went to work unknowing what was going on until after an hour it twigged it must have been the uv.
    So advised to go to A&E and they confirmed UV damage to the back of my eyes and I have an appointment in a week to assess the damage, but nothing can be done. My eyes were painfull for about 3 days.
    Yes my drum has a safety switch on the lid, but I was a twat and bypassed it.
    Please take this as advice, and be careful.
    Dave



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    I was like you,until i ended up with watery eyes.I did have mine in the drum,but moved it into the first chamber of my bio tank where it was on view..I ended up buying uv resistant safety glasses for when i take the lid off the bio tank and dont want the uv off .Like you say,the danger is very real

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    A few years ago my friend Cleveland done exactly the same and posted on here to beware
    The pain was unbearable
    He spent hours in hospital and eventually went to Moorfield Eye Hospital.
    The nurse put drops in his eyes and within 30 seconds the pain had gone

    Dont take risks..... Turn off your UV when doing maintenance
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai dshaw63's Avatar
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    Have just fitted sub UV in drum and plugged into mains and not into outlet from drum control box, as has big black socket [ 2 pin with side earth]. Will heed your advise regarding turning off UV with maintenance, wondering which is best way of connecting to fly lead out of control box, do not really want to cut out socket off of fly lead. Many thanks Dean ..

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    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    Wish I'd seen this before last weekend! I couldn't work it out but had exactly the same, came on about 10pm after a day tinkering in the chamber, and then horrendous pain throughout the night, couldn't keep my eyes open or closed! Just hope there's no permanent damage.

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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
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    It is serious stuff..... but..... I want to say..... Now you know how Fabricator Welders, Steel Workers etc suffer. Please note my username lol.

    My eyes are scarred to *** at the back from arceye and flashes, thing is you never know you are getting it til about 6 or so hours later. Put used cool tea bags on your eyes if you can, they help ease the pain.

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  12. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wda24729 View Post
    Just hope there's no permanent damage.
    You need to go and get them checked out better safe than sorry, especially with your eyes...…

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    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    I thought because it was underwater and contained within a quartz sleeve everything would be safe. There's no warnings anywhere on the packaging.

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  16. #9
    It doesn't help when someone with decades of experience and thousands of subscribers puts out videos of himself doing this:

    youtube.com/watch?v=Hyf2vuITyH8



    I also feel koi dealers should be much more proactive about warning customers of the dangers of amalgam bulbs - both the UV risks to eyesight and the extremely serious toxicity of mercury exposure (to fish, humans and the environment) if amalgam bulbs are handled carelessly or disposed of carelessly. Mercury is nasty, nasty, nasty stuff. It gives off an inhalable vapour and can also permeate skin, if touched. Few people realise quite how dangerous it can be. Of course some customers may roll their eyes and retort that they know the dangers and the dealer shouldn't try to patronise them, but that doesn't mean the dealer doesn't have a duty of care to warn all UV/amalgam customers, anyway - the major health risks outweigh the minor social risks of an occasional customer feeling 'patronised' by a well-intended & legitimate warning.


    Good post, koicarpus, and I hope your eyes recover well from your mishap.
    Last edited by MustBeSomethingInTheWater; 19-06-2020 at 07:54 PM.

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    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    Oh hell! Doesn't bode well for those of my generation who used to push and blow Mercury around the desks of our school science lessons!

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    For someone not involved in any welding or associated trade I guess the dangers may not be obvious. I'm sure my 18 y/o daughter would have no clue that you can't look at a UV light..... like most of that generation who "close their eyes" on sunbeds rather than wear the goggles and get white circles!

    I was certainly educated about the dangers of UV / Welding at college, yet, when it came to clearing asbestos dust using an airline the advice was simply to "try not to breathe it in".

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  22. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by wda24729 View Post
    Oh hell! Doesn't bode well for those of my generation who used to push and blow Mercury around the desks of our school science lessons!
    Yeah, I was on the tail-end of that, school-wise, too.

    It wasn't my intention to scaremonger with my above remarks about the toxicity of mercury amalgam, but I can assure you, it wasn't exaggeration. It is far more toxic, and in far tinier quantities, and far more easily, than most people realise, because it doesn't seem 'believable' that it could really be that hazardous.

    Clearly, you have lived to tell the tale, so be thankful, but be careful from now on!

    As for Koi-keepers using UV bulbs, in addition to the sage advice about never exposing your eyes to the UV light, do handle them with great care, so as not to shatter them, and please don't dump them in landfill, as mercury will seep into soil and groundwater.

    Not to elaborate too much on it here, as it isn't appropriate on a koi forum, but if anyone reading this thread, now or even several years from now, happens to encounter mercury toxicity in themselves or a friend or family member, I would just like to leave a little advice which could make an enormous difference in their chances of successful treatment. I hope members will forgive me taking this momentary detour, as it's a thread about keeping people safe from danger, and one never knows where a random stranger (even one not interested in koi-keeping) , at a random time, might be directed by a search engine, in their desperate search for information:


    The internet is awash with extremely bad (dangerous) advice for detoxifying the human body of heavy metals, using natural substances such as chlorella (a thiol-rich substance) or cilantro. None of that dangerous advice has any grasp or understanding of the extreme importance of pharmacokinetics (the rate at which a dose of a chelating substance is generally likely to decay during its time within the human body). Without understanding the rate at which a specific chelator will decay, one cannot possibly know how to accurately replenish the chelator, with each subsequent dose, in a manner which efficiently ensures that the 'payload' of toxic metal(s) doesn't get released, in its free state, to wreak yet more havoc on the tissues and cells of the body. When a chelator is administered, it will attach to metals throughout much of the human body, but only a percentage of the attached payload will be successfully excreted via the blood>kidney>urine and the liver>bile>GI tract>stool before the chelator begins to decay. Therefore, it needs to be accurately replenished to achieve best chances of successful treatment, without potentially causing more harm. In bad cases, failure to understand this could result in mercury being moved from other tissues (including the liver), into the bloodstream, and, potentially, across the blood-brain barrier, into the brain. Mercury is itself known to be capable of passing the blood-brain barrier. Alpha Lipoic Acid and cilantro (both being known chelators) are also each capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier (with or without metal payload, and in either direction across the barrier), underlining the importance of administering them in a very controlled and responsible manner, whenever heavy metal toxicty is present. Furthermore, different chelators have different pharmacokinetic profiles. Further still, toxic metals interact differently with each chelator, so it isn't a case of one chelator being useful with all possible metals. DMPS, DMSA, EDTA, ALA, etc. All need to be understood in relation to which specific metal is causing health issues for someone, and failure to heed this poses yet more risks. The specific metal needs to be accurately understood (using testing and skilled clinical interpretation) and the specific pharmacokinetic characteristics of a specific chelator appropriate to the identified metal need to be understood, on a case-by-case basis.

    I'll leave it at that, as this is a koi forum, but for anyone ever needing to get up to speed with how to safely navigate the above pitfalls, one of the most reliable sources of information is the books written by Andrew Hall Cutler, an ex industrial chemical engineer, who was himself mercury intoxicated and successfully turned his health around. After being failed by the conventional medical establishment's approach to heavy metal toxicity diagnosis and treatment (which, oddly, he found to be ignorant of many of the dangers of heavy metal detoxification, even though they are acutely aware of the importance of pharmacokinetics in other applications of medicine), Cutler brought to bear his own considerable knowledge of chemical interactions and research methods to trawl many decades of literature and synthesise a coherent method of chelating safely. Thousands of people have him to thank for safely regaining their health, after some appalling longterm metal-toxicity-related symptoms (many patients reporting that their symptoms had been worsened by conventional medical detoxification approaches).



    Now, back to koi and not staring at naked UV bulbs!!


    Last edited by MustBeSomethingInTheWater; 22-06-2020 at 11:59 AM.

  23. #13
    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    Very interesting and thanks for taking the time. And yes, back to not staring at UV bulbs, I really think a warning should be boldly stamped on the products.

    When I was grappling for answers to my painful eyes, I googled UV pond lights and most said they are safe because they are in quartz sleeves etc etc, so I largely dismissed this as the cause, hence its happened twice to me. It was only after I stumbled across this thread, that I now know of the cause.

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  25. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by wda24729 View Post
    I really think a warning should be boldly stamped on the products.
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by wda24729 View Post
    When I was grappling for answers to my painful eyes, I googled UV pond lights and most said they are safe because they are in quartz sleeves etc etc, so I largely dismissed this as the cause, hence its happened twice to me. It was only after I stumbled across this thread, that I now know of the cause.

    I guess those people claiming quartz sleeves 'make the light safe' didn't pause to consider why algal cells don't seem to be very safe from the light, then..?

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    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    Yes, I meant to write about that issue, as even to a simpleton like me, it didn't make sense!

  28. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
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    Re UV and the quartz sleeve making the light safe,
    Perhaps that is a misunderstanding based on the principal that the majority of UV rays do not pass through glass, (though some do) hence you can not get a tan through glass, but note I said glass, quartz however does not block UV rays, so, assuming the quartz sleeves are actually quartz it would explain the flawed thinking.

  29. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the information about this and thanks for those sharing their incidents as a warning for others.

    My uncle is partially sighted (not because of uv, but a genetic condition) and I've seen first hand how even a reduction in sight, let alone a complete loss of sight, can have such a major impact on your life.

    I'm astonished how blase people are in you tube videos where you can directly see the uv light switched on. And even though it maybe immersed, I just think why take a chance.

    That's why I only have my amalgam turn on at night when I'm asleep - to avoid any accidental exposure if anyone lifts the lid on the drum. I also do this because the water is clear as it is, so I don't see the need to leave it on all the time using up extra electricity and burning out the lamp quicker.

    A good tip if you want to check if the amalgam bulb is switching on. I lift the lid to the drum and use my phone to film the inside of the drum. And then I can watch the video after without exposing my skin or eyes directly to the UV rays.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wda24729 View Post
    Oh hell! Doesn't bode well for those of my generation who used to push and blow Mercury around the desks of our school science lessons!
    you will be fine, you can drink metallic mercury. It’s when it’s become oregano metallic mercury as in Methylmercury, then it’s a different kettle of fish. It will bioaccumulate and biomagnify. This is the type you get eating predatory fish etc.
    the slow pond build thread

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