Thread: Too much intervention?

Is it possible do you think that medications added to Koi ponds on average kill more fish than they cure? I am not saying that in the hands of experts the medications cant be effective, I am just wondering if they are overused and the potential for getting it wrong is rather large.

Is it possible that some parasites (e.g. flukes) are a symptom of other problems (other illness's or environmental problems) rather than the primary cause of an issue - I have heard it said that a few flukes on a fish are not a problem. On the other hand I have also heard that you should scrape several fish to locate a potential parasite problem
Until recently I had a large pond scattered with lily pots and had absolutely no hope of catching a fish. My response to any sulking fish was - 1. check water parameters 2. clean the filter 3. change some water. I have been running this regime successfully for 5 years and never had to resort to any chemical additions.
I have now separated the plants and the koi - so theoretically I should be able to catch my fish. Unfortunately I am completely hopeless at catching fish - unless they are flapping around in less than 6" of water lol. So I am really quite tempted to stick with this regime.
On the other hand, have I just been lucky up to now and have never had flukes etc in the pond. Perhaps I really need to learn how to catch my fish and get set up for doing scrapes etc - just not entirely convinced either way?

I think flukes are not a major problem it's the flicking/rubbing that causes the damage:-)

I have never used any medication in my Koi ponds in 20yrs and any problems in time naturally go away.I don't believe in stressing the fish which it does ,just leave to nature.Just keep the water in good condition and there wont be a problem.

Originally Posted by TIMSON 26

I have never used any medication in my Koi ponds in 20yrs and any problems in time naturally go away.I don't believe in stressing the fish which it does ,just leave to nature.Just keep the water in good condition and there wont be a problem.

Very interesting - Thanks for that - it would be interesting to get a feeling for how many people are the same - You sometimes get a very biased view looking at posts on forums, you might end up thinking that most people put stuff in several times a year!

Originally Posted by TIMSON 26

I have never used any medication in my Koi ponds in 20yrs and any problems in time naturally go away.I don't believe in stressing the fish which it does ,just leave to nature.Just keep the water in good condition and there wont be a problem.

Would be nice if it did, not sure I agree with the above tbh

there was a trend to use PP every 6 weeks at half a dose for many years. and even now some koi keepers still do this. not so sure that they will admit it mind. any treatment should be the last port of call, and getting the right one for your problem is the key. the way i see it is if your koi are getting ill more than twice a year you must re think how your looking after them. and if your keeping the water right, the filters clean and any new fish added properly quarantined. the rest is is just be luck. after all even we get ill and have no idea how it happens. be a virus or infection. but the way i see it would you leave your own family ill in bed without any kind of medication on the off chance their going to get better, when you have something you could use to help them. not sure if i miss read what you was trying to say mind pip. i do get a bit confused at times

I haven't had any parasite or disease issues in 18 years, I don't use any chemicals in the pond or subject my fish to them.
I believe that if the pond environment is well maintained, balanced and stable then the fish will be healthy and seldom need our intervention.
Unfortunately the hobby has adopted a scrape, seek and treat method in place of the natural processes that balance the pond environment.
Fit and healthy fish have natures best defence against parasites and diseases and that's their mucus, stripping it off with chemicals to remove one or two parasites is pointless as the natural shedding and replacement of mucus looks after that.
I'm not saying there isn't occasional need for intervention but I think a lot of the time treatments can be counterproductive.

Originally Posted by vince

but the way i see it would you leave your own family ill in bed without any kind of medication on the off chance their going to get better, when you have something you could use to help them. not sure if i miss read what you was trying to say mind pip. i do get a bit confused at times

But what if they didn't want to be treated and you had to chase them round the house and dunk them under water before medicating them?? + you went sure that the medication would help them anyway.
Sometimes bed rest and fresh air (cleaning the pond + extra air) are the best cures - we all want the best for our koi

Personally after seeing my Shusui nose down and fin up, the first thing I did was try to find out what was wrong, after treating with m fluke it is now swimming around happily again with the others, I would never not try to prevent a death, however on certain occasion I have probably have been over paranoid!

I take my hat off to anyone that can keep high grade koi and not run into problems sooner or later, and I believe parasites are a problem, and will eventually cause more stress to the koi leading to secondary problems which normally is bacterial, once this gets hold of the koi the chances are slight on survival.

As for keeping the pond clean, I do what all other good koi keepers do, regular cleaning feed good food etc but still run into the odd problem, it sounds like you have been very lucky so far.

Regards
Steve

Originally Posted by koicrazysteve

As for keeping the pond clean, I do what all other good koi keepers do, regular cleaning feed good food etc but still run into the odd problem, it sounds like you have been very lucky so far.

I am sure you are right - I have been lucky - I am not for a moment suggesting you should never treat. I just have the feeling some people may be jumping the gun sometimes and with flukes in particular that they may often be secondary to another problem.
I have had everything in my pond - frogs, newts, toads pigeons, ducks & herons (two at least have discharged their stomach contents into the pond after getting caught up in fishing wire when chased by our dog ) And yet I have apparently never had an issue with flukes - or perhaps I have got them, but in balance with other pond microorganisms that keep them in check - and they don't cause a problem - pure speculation on my part. I don't like the idea of giving preventative doses of chemicals though - I feel it really shouldn't be necessary and could upset the natural balance.

I agree with the idea that maintaining a balanced environment in the pond can reduce the need for chemical treatments, especially if the goal is a stable ecosystem. In many cases, prevention through high-quality water and filter maintenance seems to be an effective solution to avoid the additional stress that constant treatment can cause for the fish. Additionally, sometimes parasites can coexist without being a problem, suggesting that natural balance also plays a significant role in pond health.

Always happy syd last time i saw you was when bkks was held at newark showground way back when lol do miss the koi carp magazine tho always got my subscription from there

Originally Posted by Manky Sanke

Blimey that would have been back in 2008. Doesn't time fly when you're having fun? Will you be going the the National at the Heart of England Showground next year?

Yeah should be there again next year i went on the sunday this year did both days at newark show tho amazing back in 2008 we all made our own filter or multi bays never had any issues back then did we 😅