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markf1fan
23-03-2012, 09:57 PM
hi all
will it be ok if i fit my pipe work like as in sketch. i am running a estro sieve at the moment with mid water feed to the sieve as in picture but the new Cetus sieve has bottom water feed. will i have to cut the gate valve off and refit or can i pipe up as in my rubbish sketch lol.

markf1fan
23-03-2012, 10:18 PM
hope this give a better idea of how i would have to do it with out touching the gate valve yet.

sorry about the crap pictures as im useless doing things like this lol.

Davej
23-03-2012, 10:25 PM
Hiya Mark

Think that you know the real solution is to located the sieve so it feeds vertically from the upstand or cut the upstand and drop the valve lower down so you only have two 90s.

You can do this without dropping the pond level.:D

Dave

markf1fan
23-03-2012, 10:32 PM
how can i do this with out lowering the pond level.

i think this is the way it really needs to be done.

mark

Davej
23-03-2012, 10:50 PM
Now putting the valve horizontally makes things slightly more difficult:D

If there were room to put it in the upstand prior to the 90 I would simply have cut the pipe above the valve and pushed down a vented 4" bung below the height of the cut OR used a bit of pipe with a toilet connector on to create a bung and upstand inside the existing 110mm pipe. With either you can then carefully cut the upstand to height and instal a valve at the correct height.

If there isn't room to relocate the SV in the vertical then just a question of a brief swim, flipping the drain cover and sticking in a bung in the BD pipe..

With the air temps good this weekend a dip may be refreshing:D

Dave

Davej
23-03-2012, 11:01 PM
Not sure how easily the BD hinges open but with something like this you could probably coax it into position into the BD pipe without getting wet.

Monument 1290H Flexible Inflatable Plug 4" : Tooled-Up.com (http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=6569&Referrer=froogle&gclid=CKOLw6GB_q4CFWIntAodsHx93A)

Dave

Big_al
26-03-2012, 09:03 AM
Mark, I would be concerned about the potential of creating a big air pocket which could reduce the flow.

I would bribe one of your kids to go in to block the bottom drain! LOL then reposition the valve lower down.

Cheers Al,

markf1fan
13-04-2012, 09:55 PM
well i have the new cetus sieve now but am still not sure on how to do things. i want to cut the 4" pipe down and refit the gate valve better.

Davej
13-04-2012, 10:26 PM
Position the Cetus and take a pic so we can see how things stack up Mark

Dave

Big_al
13-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Mark, if you can't get a bend in without cutting below the valve then you will have to either bung the bottom drain or lower the water level. The valve can then be repositioned lower down if there is room, if not it will have to be positioned after the bend before going into the sieve.

cheers Al,

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 07:39 AM
Position the Cetus and take a pic so we can see how things stack up Mark

Daveok will try and set it in the best i can and get a picture.


Mark, if you can't get a bend in without cutting below the valve then you will have to either bung the bottom drain or lower the water level. The valve can then be repositioned lower down if there is room, if not it will have to be positioned after the bend before going into the sieve.

cheers Al,

hi Al
the prob i have is will the liner stay in the same place as it is now when filled up. im worried that things will move if i lower the water level. i would need to lower to at least half way even lower then that. also running a bead filter how long is it poss toleave this off while i do the work.

Daran
14-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Hi Mark

I had the same problem when I put my Cetus in lol

What I did was to shut the gate valve and cut the pipe 4" above the gate .I had a pipe bung set ready so that as I opened the valve I pushed the bung in to below where it needed to be cut which was not as hard as I thought it would be to do .

I then cut the pipe down and installed the gate valve with a tee joint above it which fed the sieve . From the tee vertically I did in clear pipe so I can see the water level of the pond from the shed and can be used as a rodding point if ever needed.

Hope the drawing makes sense lol

faz201283
14-04-2012, 04:28 PM
im on my phone so cant see any pics bit if your using a pipe bung and its the same as we use in work, the ones with a rubber outer and you screw the wing nut to tighten to the pipe be sure to have it almost there before putting in the pipe coz they can be an arse to tighten somtimes. also be sure not to let go, if you slip and it goes down the pipe you'll have a nightmare gettin it back out

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 04:56 PM
Hi Mark

I had the same problem when I put my Cetus in lol

What I did was to shut the gate valve and cut the pipe 4" above the gate .I had a pipe bung set ready so that as I opened the valve I pushed the bung in to below where it needed to be cut which was not as hard as I thought it would be to do .

I then cut the pipe down and installed the gate valve with a tee joint above it which fed the sieve . From the tee vertically I did in clear pipe so I can see the water level of the pond from the shed and can be used as a rodding point if ever needed.

Hope the drawing makes sense lol

the problem i have is because the gate valve sits to high where it is right now im thinking i will have to lower the water level or bung the bottom drain up. im not one for going under water so this is a no no with me doing it. if i could bung the drain up then imsure its an easy job to do. so if any one out there is willing to do it then please come forward lol.

Daran
14-04-2012, 04:57 PM
Yes Faz that is the type of bung I used and like you say I had it set with a snug fit before opening the gate and pushing it down and tightening it up

Daran
14-04-2012, 05:02 PM
Mark im saying I had to do the same and lower the position of the gate :( I did'nt have to lower the level of the pond but pushed the bung down passed the gate to where it was to be repositioned .

go54nke
14-04-2012, 05:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that the pipe used on the nexus 200 to bung the centre up when cleaning will fit inside a 4" pipe, if so you just need to cap the end of it, and then do as Daran says.

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:07 PM
can you please find a link to where i could buy one of these bungs please. did you loose alot ofwater when you opened the gate valve as you pushed the bung inside the 4" pipe.

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:09 PM
would this do the job.

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230732723104?var=530042767988&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:19 PM
Hi Mark,

This is the one I used, a metal one actually and from the same place, it was about £5
Toolstation > Hand Tools > Plumbers Tools > Nylon Drain Plug (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/Plumbers+Tools/Nylon+Drain+Plug+4+x+/d10/sd210/p20648)

Daran
14-04-2012, 05:24 PM
That is very similar , if you go to somewhere like Plumb Base or any builders merchant and ask for a 4" pipe bung they will be a lot cheaper :)

I did lose some water but not as much as I was expecting just make sure the bung is set correct before you open the gate :)

Once the new gate is in position just slacken the bung and the water pressure will let it come up passed the gate then just shut the gate

But keep hold of it all the time as Faz has said !!!

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:26 PM
mark if you can wait until monday ill get one from work and just over the cost of postage pal

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:28 PM
these are the ones we use at work and the only ones i would trust, if you get a cheap one and it dosnt hold then you have a lot of water to contend with

Drain Test Plug | 160mm Drainage Pipe And Fittings | Drainage Online (http://www.drainageonline.co.uk/160mm-Drainage-Pipe-And-Fittings/Drain-Test-Plug.htm)

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:31 PM
thanks miles, sod it just brought one. i still think i am going to have a problem because where the 4" comes out of the ground i need to put a 90 bend on it straight away so how would i get the bung out. i cant just fit the gate valve next to the floor as i believe the 90 bend would still be to high for the sieve. this is starting to get to me now. sorry guys

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:32 PM
these are the ones we use at work and the only ones i would trust, if you get a cheap one and it dosnt hold then you have a lot of water to contend with

Drain Test Plug | 160mm Drainage Pipe And Fittings | Drainage Online (http://www.drainageonline.co.uk/160mm-Drainage-Pipe-And-Fittings/Drain-Test-Plug.htm)

Yep, that's exactly the one I have, handy bit of kit to have.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:33 PM
you wont get the stopper around a 90 bend, not without loosing a hell of a lot of water in the process

are you using pressure pipe fittings or 4'' drainage

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:33 PM
mark if you can wait until monday ill get one from work and just over the cost of postage pal

yes please get me one even if i have just brought the cheap one now but its only a £10 lol to waste lol. would rather have the metal one.

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:35 PM
you wont get the stopper around a 90 bend, not without loosing a hell of a lot of water in the process

are you using pressure pipe fittings or 4'' drainage
its the orange pipe that im using in the pictures.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:36 PM
no probs, im sure we have just had some new ones sent out so that'll be better than a used one we have

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:37 PM
this is how i really have got to do it so as in picture.

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:37 PM
thanks miles, sod it just brought one. i still think i am going to have a problem because where the 4" comes out of the ground i need to put a 90 bend on it straight away so how would i get the bung out. i cant just fit the gate valve next to the floor as i believe the 90 bend would still be to high for the sieve. this is starting to get to me now. sorry guys

Yes, it does seem to be a problem and like you say, you need to be putting a 90° bend on at almost ground level.
The only way I can see, is to get in the water and bung it at the bottom drain. A very cold job :( If it was me, I would lower the level to about half to do it, but that is a hell of a lot of water, and even then, you might still be 'groping' about if you don't want to go under!
Would your suggestion on the first page not work? the drawing you did?

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:41 PM
tbh ive just had another look at your 1st sketch and i really dont see a problem with you fitting it in the way it is in the sketch, normally yes it might get a little air trapped in the top of the 180 bend but as its from the bottom drain the pipe will be at full bore and so would push all air out i cant see any air getting caught in it

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:42 PM
also is the sieve your taking off for sale and can you pm me a price and measurements of it

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:43 PM
the prob is in fact it will be 4x 90 bends as it also needs a 90 bend on the sieve inlet. this to me really is over the top as i am wanting to run 15,000L pump on the sieve.

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:45 PM
tbh ive just had another look at your 1st sketch and i really dont see a problem with you fitting it in the way it is in the sketch, normally yes it might get a little air trapped in the top of the 180 bend but as its from the bottom drain the pipe will be at full bore and so would push all air out i cant see any air getting caught in it

I agree with that, with the full force of water coming through, I would think it will be absolutely fine :)

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:45 PM
also is the sieve your taking off for sale and can you pm me a price and measurements of it

yes it is for sale when its off the pond. will pm you.

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:47 PM
yes it is for sale when its off the pond. will pm you.

Rats....he beat me to it, lol

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:48 PM
its not like a car exhaust were getting the gas out is easier with a more free flowing system its water which even thou gravity fed is still under a certain amount of pressure so it fill flow as fast as you can pump it back out

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:49 PM
i tell ya what who ever wants to come here and fit my new sieve can have the old sieve lol

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:49 PM
lol sorry miles, im having a problem with the size of vortex's and fitting a vortex and 4bay into my new shed/filter house/winter home/growing on tank so a sieve if smaller would be better

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:50 PM
were you at mark?

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:52 PM
Now....where's my snorkel ;) no, it's first come, first served and UKHCF FAZ pipped me to it, no worries.

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:52 PM
were you at mark?

biggleswade, bedfordshire. i dont really want to do it with all the bends as i would not feel happy with it that way. i really want to fit it with the 90 bend then the gate valve as its so much better looking and on the sieve.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:53 PM
i also dont mind bunging up your drain if ya want to do it that way , is it heated lol

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:54 PM
Now....where's my snorkel ;) no, it's first come, first served and UKHCF FAZ pipped me to it, no worries.

well all i want is my new sieve fitted, dont care about giving the old one away as long as they are willing to sort the new one out for me lol. even if its means getting in pond and bunging it up while we fit the sieve lol. ;)

miles41
14-04-2012, 05:54 PM
i really want to fit it with the 90 bend then the gate valve as its so much better looking and on the sieve.

Have to agree with you on that one for sure.

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:55 PM
i also dont mind bunging up your drain if ya want to do it that way , is it heated lol

you bring the electric with ya and i will heat it for ya lol.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 05:56 PM
200 miles lol how soon do you want it on, im getting a new car in the next few weeks and driving down aint a problem, the car i have now is lets say not eco friendly lol tanker drivers follow me around rubbing their hands

have you fed your fish? i dont want them biting

Daran
14-04-2012, 05:56 PM
The pipe bung idea will only work if the gate goes before the bend Mark

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 05:58 PM
200 miles lol how soon do you want it on, im getting a new car in the next few weeks and driving down aint a problem, the car i have now is lets say not eco friendly lol tanker drivers follow me around rubbing their hands

have you fed your fish? i dont want them biting

200 miles surely thats to far for ya to travel. i just need it done before the 24th of next month

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:00 PM
if your serious about the sieve ill bring my goggles just supply me with a shower afterwards, i dont want koi shit on my new headrests lol

miles41
14-04-2012, 06:00 PM
200 miles surely thats to far for ya to travel. i just need it done before the 24th of next month

Looks like you've found ya man! As it'll be May before I can get down Paul's (& yours) anyway :(

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:00 PM
The pipe bung idea will only work if the gate goes before the bend Mark

Yeah thats what i thought Daran, this really has got to be done with bunging up the bottom drain. and its not some thing im wanting to do myself if im honest. the sieve end really needs a 90 bend on before the gate valve to fit up how i want it. as in last picture

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:03 PM
if your serious about the sieve ill bring my goggles just supply me with a shower afterwards, i dont want koi shit on my new headrests lol

i am dead serious mate, if you can help me with this then the estro sieve is yours for free. yes i have a shower here for ya and any way my fish dont crap as they dont get feed enough lol.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:05 PM
lol no probs pal ill dig out my speedo's lol, asoon as i get the new motor we'll sort out a day, be a satday if thats ok

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:07 PM
lol no probs pal ill dig out my speedo's lol, asoon as i get the new motor we'll sort out a day, be a satday if thats ok

thats cool with me but has to be done before the 24th may as im going away and i have my dad staying here looking after my pond and dog.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:09 PM
tell ya what if i dont have the new car for the 2nd weekend in may ill drive down in the one i have either way it'll be done well before you go away

miles41
14-04-2012, 06:11 PM
tell ya what if i dont have the new car for the 2nd weekend in may ill drive down in the one i have either way it'll be done well before you go away

Enjoy your day....and the reward :p lucky so & so; and Mark, don't forget the pics ;) ;)

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:12 PM
tell ya what if i dont have the new car for the 2nd weekend in may ill drive down in the one i have either way it'll be done well before you go away

ok great please dont let me down as i will leave it till then and if you cant do it let me know soon as poss as would have to sort some thing else out. the old sieve will still be running when you get here for you to see any way. i already have the cetus sieve here ready and waiting. already have the 90 bends and we will use the gate valve thats on the pond now.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:14 PM
im sure i will, the mrs thinks ive gone mad (she squirms if it rains on her head) be good to meet mark and check out his pond before i re build mine

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:14 PM
Enjoy your day....and the reward :p lucky so & so; and Mark, don't forget the pics ;) ;)

oh miles dont worry about pics as you know i love taking pictures of my pond lol. i dont mind helping some one out when it helps me out lol.

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:16 PM
im sure i will, the mrs thinks ive gone mad (she squirms if it rains on her head) be good to meet mark and check out his pond before i re build mine

where is it your coming from.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:16 PM
i wont let ya down pal, ill be there

go54nke
14-04-2012, 06:16 PM
Mark, are you using the bottom drain that is hinged? if you was to lift the lid can you access the 4" pipe? I may have a cunning plan ;)

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:17 PM
Mark, are you using the bottom drain that is hinged? if you was to lift the lid can you access the 4" pipe? I may have a cunning plan ;)

yes i am its one of avenue fisheries drains. maybe it will be good after all lol.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:17 PM
st.helens, between liverpool and manchester

miles41
14-04-2012, 06:18 PM
oh miles dont worry about pics as you know i love taking pictures of my pond lol. i dont mind helping some one out when it helps me out lol.

Yeah, I know you do mate. I'm sure it'll all go well and with the excitement of your new sieve, it'll be a good day.

go54nke
14-04-2012, 06:19 PM
Monument 1290H Flexible Inflatable Plug 100mm (4 Inch) - MON1290 (http://www.toolstop.co.uk/monument-1290h-flexible-inflatable-plug-100mm-4-inch-p18098)

All you need to do is extend the air pipe and get it in there. ;)

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:21 PM
Monument 1290H Flexible Inflatable Plug 100mm (4 Inch) - MON1290 (http://www.toolstop.co.uk/monument-1290h-flexible-inflatable-plug-100mm-4-inch-p18098)

All you need to do is extend the air pipe and get it in there. ;)

i have already looked at these but im worried they would not hold the weight of the pond water back.

miles41
14-04-2012, 06:22 PM
That's a good idea Al, could be handy to have 'one in' so to speak.

go54nke
14-04-2012, 06:24 PM
I would think they would do as the gap in a bottom drain doesn't shut up under the weight of the water, just a thought anyway. ;)

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:24 PM
i did think of these at 1st, you could always give it ago, we dont use them in work because they can be tricky to get an air test on them, ive never used one in this sort of situation so cant comment

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:28 PM
think i would rather have ago with bunging the drain up really with the other tool. not to sure on the air bag.

faz201283
14-04-2012, 06:38 PM
ill bring 2 stoppers with me mark, we'll bung up the bottom drain and then bung up the 90 bend until ya have the new sieve in place just to be safe then reach down the pipe and take the stopper back out, that is as long as the pipe isnt too long to get my arm down

markf1fan
14-04-2012, 06:55 PM
cool with me mate, thanks for offering to do it and i look forward to meeting ya. many thanks mark :)

faz201283
14-04-2012, 07:01 PM
no probs pal, my pleasure

Davej
14-04-2012, 07:21 PM
Mark

It's nothing to do with the weight of water but the pressure and at the depths you are dealing with theres no great pressure.

I sub contract any BD playing to my son who is good but screwing up a traditional bung underwater is gonna be challenging.

Dave

archie33
16-04-2012, 10:15 AM
Sounds like a lot of hassle !
When I got my cetus sieve I had to empty half the pond, same situation where I had 90 straight out and into sieve, All I did was a couple of cheap pools to transfer water into, if you are prepared this can all be done in a day, then just put the water back into the pond.

archie33
18-04-2012, 07:58 AM
Just read a few threads and did not know your pond is only about 1' 6'' below ground. mine is 4' below ground so this way worked for me.

andysod
23-04-2012, 03:20 PM
i hope im not talking out of turn Mark but i was just reading this thread and i couldnt help noticing reference to estro sieve and first come first refusal and if you recollect you did tell me on the 4, april and i asked you to tell me when you were ready to sell, i see from thread that UKHCF Faz mentioned it on the 14, april so i think that puts me in front, as i say hope im not out of turn in mentioning it, andy

markf1fan
23-04-2012, 04:37 PM
i hope im not talking out of turn Mark but i was just reading this thread and i couldnt help noticing reference to estro sieve and first come first refusal and if you recollect you did tell me on the 4, april and i asked you to tell me when you were ready to sell, i see from thread that UKHCF Faz mentioned it on the 14, april so i think that puts me in front, as i say hope im not out of turn in mentioning it, andy

hiya
yes i did say that but UKHCF Faz is driving 200 miles to come and fit my new sieve which means getting into my pond and bunging up the drain. any one who is willing to do that is more then welcome to have the sieve. i never thought it would course problems or as i would of just put it on ebay and got money for it.sorry again if i have upset you.
mark

andysod
23-04-2012, 04:56 PM
Thanks for reply Mark and yes Im afraid it did upset me, if you had wanted good money for it then Im sure you would have put it on ebay but you didnt you offered it to me, I fully understand why you have given it to UKHCF Faz, but to be perfectly honest i feel it was underhand and for that reason i wont be bothering with this forum again, i did believe that this forum was frequented by honest honourable koi lovers but i see at least in this case that is not so, absolutely no offence meant to any other members, andy

Davej
23-04-2012, 05:04 PM
Absolutely stunned by your response Andy.

I will leave it here for now, as I hope that you will give you the oportunity to delete it. Somethings are said in the heat of the moment that we later regret.

Dave

miles41
23-04-2012, 05:10 PM
I'm sure no malice was meant by Mark with this one Andy.

andysod
23-04-2012, 05:50 PM
I dont think for one moment that any malice was meant by mark but to my way of thinking all mark had to do was pm me tell me the situation and no problem, if i hadnt happened to just read the thread i would still be waiting for mark to let me know when he was ready to sell. Sorry dave but i think i am right and as i said i meant no offence to any other member, come to that i meant no offence to mark but i still maintain what i said was correct, sorry andy

markf1fan
23-04-2012, 06:16 PM
andy i am so sorry but i honestly totally forgot that i had offered you it or i would have pm you to let you know what was happening. being a good member on this forum i am so sorry that you feel that you have to leave the forum because of a mishap by myself. the forumhas other great guys on here that im sure you would get on well with. as people on this forum will tell you, i am a great guy and would never of ment to upset you or any one on here at all. when the other guy said he would come and do it i just thought that its a good way to pay him as he was interested in the sieve.

miles41
23-04-2012, 06:20 PM
It sounds like a genuine mis-understanding by all concerned and hope you and andy can agree to this.
For what it's worth Andy, I can vouch for Mark as being a genuine and helpful guy on this forum & on the phone!

psp
23-04-2012, 06:47 PM
It's not a big deal just go on ebay and buy a cheap one, I know from a fact Mark would not have meant to upset you in any way!
Kind Regards
Paul

andysod
23-04-2012, 06:54 PM
I hope everyone including Mark will accept my apologies for my rant, I was upset when i saw it but i do accept that it was not marks intention to do anything other than get a good deal for himself for the fitting of his new sieve, I know i have had nothing but good advice from all members here and espescially mark who has replied many times to my queries, once again i hope all will accept my apologies espescially mark, regards andy

markf1fan
23-04-2012, 07:00 PM
I hope everyone including Mark will accept my apologies for my rant, I was upset when i saw it but i do accept that it was not marks intention to do anything other than get a good deal for himself for the fitting of his new sieve, I know i have had nothing but good advice from all members here and espescially mark who has replied many times to my queries, once again i hope all will accept my apologies espescially mark, regards andy

Hi Andy

Its ok, we all makes mistakes and this really is all it has been on my behalf. i hope you do not leave the forum as i believe it really is one of the best on the net and has great guys on here. we all at times get upset and take things the wrong way but trust me, myself or any one on this forum dont do it to upset any one on here.
lets just move on from this and all enjoy a great forum as this is whats its all about.

mark

andysod
23-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Thanks Mark

Limey
24-04-2012, 01:37 AM
Andy and Mark... you both have my respect... very well talked out in an adult way. so easy in life to offend/be offended unintentionally and SO rare that both sides see the others and resolve it. I add my hope andy stays around - nice work guys!