billy no mates

[familyman]

Billy no mates because im the only one growing and showing, so its not a competition but it seemed like a good place for my thread because i will grow them and i will show you them ,lol.
So it my birthday today and these are my presents....6 little Karashigoi, half doitsu, half normal, they're really nice, im really happy with them. From Queni koi they are Yamazaki, im determined to get one these little fish to jumbo size.
My plan is that, i will give them 2 growing seasons in my indoor grow on pond on growth food at 24c, i hope after a year they will be 40-45 cm and comfortably over 60 cm at 2 years, then they will go in my pond at the start of the 3rd season, to hopefully go on to reach ginormous proportions :D...just need some of them to be girls.
Anyway wish me luck ,its a long term project, they are currently between 12 and 16cm.

2307823079

David

[Ajm]

Good look mate can't wait to see how you get on gotta be a monster there in the making

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[AdamKoi78]

Happy birthday David. Those karashigoi will be fun to watch grow. You know I bought three last July at roughly 16cm. They are fearless when it comes to feeding as they have been left to get on with it. No special treatment give in our house��. I haven't had them in a bowl since I bought them but they must be high 30's at the very least.

Mine were from Marudo via absolute koi.

/fvG-bOLsDCo

I'll try and get some pictures and a measure for a reference to compare yours as they grow. Keep the pictures coming mate.:)

[familyman]

Cheers Adam, yeah yours are well into the 40's now, they've done well.
Imo all koi will reach 60 cm, my very first koi are reaching 60 cm now, and they didn't half get put through the mire, as i simply ddint know any better, they persevered with inadequate, infact completely unsuitable filters, always had ammonia and nitrite, no water changes, junk food, i must have really stumped their growth but as i say they are getting to 60 cm now, so surely a karashigoi with hopefully a few good years start to life will make a good sized fish, although ultimately it depends on genetics.
All mine look the same in the picture but actually up close there are some subtle differences in colour, scales, eye colour, some have red eyes which is nice

[familyman]

little update on these karashigoi, seeing as I didn't have many fish in my grow on I decided to put them in my pond.
So here they are as of today ranging from about 25 cm for the smallest up to 28 cm for the largest, up from 12 - 16 cm in 8-9 weeks, so easy growing 1 cm a week, long may that continue!

2408924090

[familyman]

heres an ochiba i put in my grow on last year , it was really tiny, not even 10 cm...Its Female and Japanese, big frame but regretfully slightly bent spine....its free to a very good home, 45 cm plus now.

[familyman]

ha ha , you got to love karashigoi and the like, they look like minnows at the side of some of my big girls ….. but they don't give a damn come feeding time, one was sucking on my big chags eyeball, I reckon she thought it was a parasite :D

[familyman]

crikey, you wouldnt believe these are the same fish when you see them :eek:, ill post more pics at the end of the growing season.

[Feline]

Ah nice, I also recently got a doitsu karashigoi (from Cuttlebrook). I will dig out a picture and show you mine as well :D

[Feline]

Here is my not-a-grow-and-show doitsu karashigoi:
Bought from Cuttlebrook (2017 spawning) in June this year, 25cm
We have called him/her Anubis :)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/894/42441949022_fee33ebd4c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27Es5ML)IMG_4874 (https://flic.kr/p/27Es5ML) by Lara Day (https://www.flickr.com/photos/felinelara/), on Flickr

[familyman]

hah, I missed that Feline, nice fish.

Im forced in to an update really, as I had to do a little maintenance to one of these 6 little karashigoi, or not so little anymore. :)
This is my favourite 1 of the 6 and it had caught a small pec fin wound in the feeding frenzy, so I caught it up to trim the damaged bit off, treat and seal it.

Its 40 cm bang on, so from April 3 rd to now is about 20 weeks I think, and even if it was originally the biggest at 16 cm, its still going at comfortably over 1cm a week.
I plan to keep this growing season going as long as possible to maximise 1st year growth, every cm I can get on them this year is one less to waste time on next year, lol.
Usually i can keep the pond at good growth temps till November, so ive got another 8 or 9 weeks, ill be really happy at anything 45 cm plus in the first season.

Of course next year they will slow down a lot, In my experience good growth in season 2 is about 50 percent (in terms of length) of the 1st season, but of course body mass probably quadruples to achieve that, so all of a sudden lots of food is required.

David

[lee63]

Looking really good them david [emoji106]


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[familyman]

wish i could heat my pond to good growth temps through winter, I reckon I could have these fish comfortably over 50 cm, come april next year,. that would be a year exactly since I got them at 12-16 cm, theyre growing like tomato plants in a green house,lol

[familyman]

I brought this Mukashi from Mike Snaden / Yume koi yesterday, its female, 36 cm and from Matsue.

What a great bloke he is, he spent an hour with me, answering all my amateur questions that I know hes heard a million times before, and he didn't even look bored, lol. It was very interesting and very valuable time for me, and considering it was a 6 hour round trip thats saying something.

Mike isn't just interested in an attractive fish, for him it has to have real jumbo potential as well, or it just doesn't cut the mustard, so he only selects fish that meet this very strict criteria.

He said if this little mukashi doesn't sail past 90-95 cm he would be very surprised...….mmmmm no pressure then :o.

[AdamKoi78]

I brought this Mukashi from Mike Snaden / Yume koi yesterday, its female, 36 cm and from Matsue.

What a great bloke he is, he spent an hour with me, answering all my amateur questions that I know hes heard a million times before, and he didn't even look bored, lol. It was very interesting and very valuable time for me, and considering it was a 6 hour round trip thats saying something.

Mike isn't just interested in an attractive fish, for him it has to have real jumbo potential as well, or it just doesn't cut the mustard, so he only selects fish that meet this very strict criteria.

He said if this little mukashi doesn't sail past 90-95 cm he would be very surprised...….mmmmm no pressure then :o.

Great stuff David I know you have been after one for ages.:)

[Feline]

I brought this Mukashi from Mike Snaden / Yume koi yesterday, its female, 36 cm and from Matsue.

What a great bloke he is, he spent an hour with me, answering all my amateur questions that I know hes heard a million times before, and he didn't even look bored, lol. It was very interesting and very valuable time for me, and considering it was a 6 hour round trip thats saying something.

Mike isn't just interested in an attractive fish, for him it has to have real jumbo potential as well, or it just doesn't cut the mustard, so he only selects fish that meet this very strict criteria.

He said if this little mukashi doesn't sail past 90-95 cm he would be very surprised...….mmmmm no pressure then :o.

Wow that does look like a lovely fish!
I am planning on buying a fish from Mike in the spring. Not sure which variety yet though. Possibly a Matsue kohaku. Im very lucky I only live a few miles from Yume :D

[familyman]

thanks, it Is attractive isnt it, I kind of thought of them as just big ogons that weren't clean enough to be called purachinas, lol, but actually they are quite beautiful.

Thanks to Dave J for putting me on to these.:)

[john1]

Really nice fish David,i have heard a lot about Mike being such a great bloke so i am not too surprised to hear you say the same maybe one day i will make the journey,long one for you David.:)

[lee63]

Love it david [emoji106] mukashi are one of those variety that are reknowned for getting to whale sizes [emoji6] best of luck bud


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[Feline]

Ive got a new Mukashi from Adam Byers Shooting Stars event.
This fish is seriously tiny at the moment as from this summers spawning- so it cant go in the pond yet. I have it in an aquarium in my living room for now.
12cm and a seriously blingy little fish :)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1923/44915580594_3d4e35162f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2br36gY)Mandy (https://flic.kr/p/2br36gY) by Lara Day (https://www.flickr.com/photos/felinelara/), on Flickr

[phil45]

have i missed the shooting stars then ? i emailed to subscribe to it and how many i wanted but heard nothing back ................

[familyman]

looks nice Feline, i was entered in that, but i pulled out when i got the above one from Mike Snaden.

[keithatrax]

I brought this Mukashi from Mike Snaden / Yume koi yesterday, its female, 36 cm and from Matsue.

What a great bloke he is, he spent an hour with me, answering all my amateur questions that I know hes heard a million times before, and he didn't even look bored, lol. It was very interesting and very valuable time for me, and considering it was a 6 hour round trip thats saying something.

Mike isn't just interested in an attractive fish, for him it has to have real jumbo potential as well, or it just doesn't cut the mustard, so he only selects fish that meet this very strict criteria.

He said if this little mukashi doesn't sail past 90-95 cm he would be very surprised...….mmmmm no pressure then :o.

I collected one from the same batch a couple of days after you David.
Didn’t have time to take a photo when I got back but I will have a measure up in December maybe we should have a little grow and show comp?:D
Mine was around 35cm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxADCd3hXc

[john1]

You have some awsome koi there Keithatrax,can i ask what the plants are in the back ground?
Some sort of lily?

[familyman]

Great fish and pond Keith....yeah we can have a 2 man grow n show :)...my pond will be heated and heavily fed till end of November, then im going to drop it to 12c and stop feeding till spring, so you will overtake me if you feed all winter.
I do have 2 advantages though, mines put a cm or 2 on already and also Mike said, mine was the last of the potential jumbo monster blood line, and that all the rest would barely reach 40 cm at 6 years old.:D

[familyman]

have i missed the shooting stars then ? i emailed to subscribe to it and how many i wanted but heard nothing back ................

I got an email almost immediately confirming my entry when I signed up, but later on I pulled out.

[Feline]

have i missed the shooting stars then ? i emailed to subscribe to it and how many i wanted but heard nothing back ................

Yeah it was last Saturday.
Might be worth checking your junk email folder in case it's in there.

[keithatrax]

You have some awsome koi there Keithatrax,can i ask what the plants are in the back ground?
Some sort of lily?

Hi John thanks
yes I think they are Arum lily's but not 100%

[keithatrax]

Great fish and pond Keith....yeah we can have a 2 man grow n show :)...my pond will be heated and heavily fed till end of November, then im going to drop it to 12c and stop feeding till spring, so you will overtake me if you feed all winter.
I do have 2 advantages though, mines put a cm or 2 on already and also Mike said, mine was the last of the potential jumbo monster blood line, and that all the rest would barely reach 40 cm at 6 years old.:D

I won't be feeding all winter so much the same as yourself. As for the 40cm at 6 years...time will tell....:D:D

[john1]

Get the Mussels in guys.:D

[familyman]

measured my mukashi up the other day because im running the pond down for the winter, its 42 cm now, biggest of the 6 karashigoi is 51 cm, the rest ranging from 45 upwards :).

[keithatrax]

measured my mukashi up the other day because im running the pond down for the winter, its 42 cm now, biggest of the 6 karashigoi is 51 cm, the rest ranging from 45 upwards :).


I saw the photos on another thread looks like you have had some great growth. I will have my Mukashi out for a measure mid-December.
Still at 22.5c with about three more weeks of feeding to go so fingers crossed I hope to be around the 40cm mark.
Glad to see your sticking around.;)

[familyman]

Great fish and pond Keith....yeah we can have a 2 man grow n show :)...my pond will be heated and heavily fed till end of November, then im going to drop it to 12c and stop feeding till spring, so you will overtake me if you feed all winter.
I do have 2 advantages though, mines put a cm or 2 on already and also Mike said, mine was the last of the potential jumbo monster blood line, and that all the rest would barely reach 40 cm at 6 years old.:D


make that 3 man grow n show, Felines got 2 !

[keithatrax]

Couple of photos of my Mukashi Ogon has grown 8cm in two months :D
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[familyman]

wow, thats gained some size Keith, well done.:cool:

[Feline]

Couple of photos of my Mukashi Ogon has grown 8cm in two months :D
2659826599

Looking good, and a nice body shape too! That's a very good growth rate.

My Mukashi has gone from 12cm to 16cm in 5 weeks which I am very pleased with. I'm now faced with the problem of not being able to move her into the pond because there's too much temperature difference and I can't cool the aquarium any lower than the living room which is at 22C most of the time. I suggested to Simon we turned the heating off and wore lots of jumpers for a couple of weeks but he was not impressed :D

[Davej]

Glad to hear that the Mukashi settled in and is doing well David, the pressure is on, no excuses; 90cm should be straightforward.:eek: This time next year mid 70's?

Dave

[familyman]

ha ha i asked Mike when i picked it up, how big would you expect it to be at the end of next year if all goes well, i figured about 65 cm, he said nah 70 cm or over.
We will see, dont want to make excuses but ive had to cut back on my heating, ill put some heat in again in spring but the pond wont be 23 - 24 c from the end of march till November again, can't afford it.!

[keithatrax]

Looking good, and a nice body shape too! That's a very good growth rate.

My Mukashi has gone from 12cm to 16cm in 5 weeks which I am very pleased with. I'm now faced with the problem of not being able to move her into the pond because there's too much temperature difference and I can't cool the aquarium any lower than the living room which is at 22C most of the time. I suggested to Simon we turned the heating off and wore lots of jumpers for a couple of weeks but he was not impressed :D


Lol well I think that’s very unreasonable of Simon :D Maybe an indoor vat or bigger aquarium is needed ;)

[keithatrax]

ha ha i asked Mike when i picked it up, how big would you expect it to be at the end of next year if all goes well, i figured about 65 cm, he said nah 70 cm or over.
We will see, dont want to make excuses but ive had to cut back on my heating, ill put some heat in again in spring but the pond wont be 23 - 24 c from the end of march till November again, can't afford it.!



I was thinking the same David I would be happy with mid 60 but over the moon if I managed 70.
I won’t be feeding a lot until the koi have spawned end of May/beginning of June I will then up the temp and feed through to December.

[familyman]

I have a soragoi and a chag that were about 28 cm in winter last year that made it to 63 and 65 cm this season, so 70 cm plus sounds plausible when I think of that, especially as the mukashi are already in to the 40 's, but at that size its the extra weight they are having to put on, to enable them to stretch isnt it. Doesnt a fish double in weight from 60 cm to 70 cm?, so that shows its probably not going to be that straight forward.

If they are going to reach 90-95 cm, I think it will take another 5 years, what do you think ?

[keithatrax]

Assuming the koi have the right genetics and bloodline etc.. the graph below shows roughly where you should be at a certain age size wise.
The graph was presented to our local koi club during a talk from Mike last year.

26606

[Davej]

I have a soragoi and a chag that were about 28 cm in winter last year that made it to 63 and 65 cm this season, so 70 cm plus sounds plausible when I think of that, especially as the mukashi are already in to the 40 's, but at that size its the extra weight they are having to put on, to enable them to stretch isnt it. Doesnt a fish double in weight from 60 cm to 70 cm?, so that shows its probably not going to be that straight forward.

If they are going to reach 90-95 cm, I think it will take another 5 years, what do you think ?

What will be, will be David, keep the fish happy, healthy and well fed, keep the water sweet and see what happens:D.

[familyman]

Assuming the koi have the right genetics and bloodline etc.. the graph below shows roughly where you should be at a certain age size wise.
The graph was presented to our local koi club during a talk from Mike last year.

26606

dunno what to make of that graph tbh, it might be a good average to go by but it doesn't fit chags and the like does it :confused:

how old is a 4 inch tiddler koi when you buy it from a dealer ?

[keithatrax]

dunno what to make of that graph tbh, it might be a good average to go by but it doesn't fit chags and the like does it :confused:

how old is a 4 inch tiddler koi when you buy it from a dealer ?



Yes your right the graph is for Gosanke. I don’t have many Non-Gosanke so I use the graph as a guide. Never bought a 4” koi but I guess it’s less than 1 year.

[familyman]

I would estimate 4 months for 4 inch, do you know Dave J ?

[Davej]

I would estimate 4 months for 4 inch, do you know Dave J ?

Much depends on how the fry are raised, certainly within range at that age - but you can easily have a koi a year old that's just 4".

GoSanke wise an autumn fish (18 months old) can easily attain 65cm. What you find with Ogons etc is that they don't tend to come in as big as Gosanke through Tosai and Autumn Nisai, I think the reason for this is that the stocking density, feed etc at the breeders is rather different, with GoSanke getting premium board and lodgings. No surprise given the premium value GS attract.

Dave

[familyman]

ooooh I think my mukashi is growing Keith :D

recently noticed it has a huge mouth in proportion to its body, compared to my other fish....im thinking "dyson" might be a suitable name, lol

cant wait for growing season.

[keithatrax]

ooooh I think my mukashi is growing Keith :D

recently noticed it has a huge mouth in proportion to its body, compared to my other fish....im thinking "dyson" might be a suitable name, lol

cant wait for growing season.

Lol my sister came to visit in December with her 5year old son Tye. After feeding the Koi they noticed the Mukashi was very greedy and would not stop eating! So my Mukashi has adopted the name Tye.
Looking forward to the growing season myself.

[familyman]

ooooh waters reached 22c today Keith, growth food going in the pond, i reckon my mukashi is getting the jump on yours now :D

[Ajm]

ooooh waters reached 22c today Keith, growth food going in the pond, i reckon my mukashi is getting the jump on yours now :D22 I wish am over the moon because I got 14

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[keithatrax]

ooooh waters reached 22c today Keith, growth food going in the pond, i reckon my mukashi is getting the jump on yours now :D

well im at 17 still with a little bit of wheat germ going in. another few weeks untill i ramp up to 24 and start feeding the balance :D

[Ajm]

Beautiful week end am up to 17 also still weatgrem just till I know itll stop up in high teens then swop over

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[familyman]

ooooh Its gonna hard to pull back the early advantage Keith ;)

[keithatrax]

ooooh Its gonna hard to pull back the early advantage Keith ;)


I think not! Got the Ogon feeding out my hand now. Bring on the mussels and 24c :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyIX6bymzCI

[familyman]

drat and double drat ,lol

its looking really nice Keith, i reckon it might be a bit chunkier than mine :)

[familyman]

Ive got a new Mukashi from Adam Byers Shooting Stars event.
This fish is seriously tiny at the moment as from this summers spawning- so it cant go in the pond yet. I have it in an aquarium in my living room for now.
12cm and a seriously blingy little fish :)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1923/44915580594_3d4e35162f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2br36gY)Mandy (https://flic.kr/p/2br36gY) by Lara Day (https://www.flickr.com/photos/felinelara/), on Flickr


hows this mukashi doing Feline, is he still living in the lounge !
Hows the Karashigoi doing ?

[familyman]

here's mine Feline and Keith, really love these Mukashi, need a couple more !

Had the day off today so I thought id give it a pre season measure up, its put about 10 cm on since I got it in October, and my ponds been in winter mode from November till April, so it just shows how they can still grow through the winter months. Really, really happy with that. :)

[keithatrax]

here's mine Feline and Keith, really love these Mukashi, need a couple more !

Had the day off today so I thought id give it a pre season measure up, its put about 10 cm on since I got it in October, and my ponds been in winter mode from November till April, so it just shows how they can still grow through the winter months. Really, really happy with that. :)

looking good David :) i will wait untill December to see how mine has grown.

[familyman]

you have more patience than me :D

[familyman]

hows your mukashi going keithatrax?

[keithatrax]

hows your mukashi going keithatrax?


It’s doing ok still feeding at 20c but I will be bringing the temp down to 16c in mid-December then I will take it out for my annual measure up. At a guess I would say it’s between 55-60cm.
How’s your one getting on?

[familyman]

mine passed through the pearly gates im afraid, had a really disastrous time with the pond, it just completely knocked me down, i was absolutely gutted and I couldn't face it anymore....so I sold up.:(
I do miss it tbh, but at least im saving some money, monthly energy bills have come down £140

[keithatrax]

mine passed through the pearly gates im afraid, had a really disastrous time with the pond, it just completely knocked me down, i was absolutely gutted and I couldn't face it anymore....so I sold up.:(
I do miss it tbh, but at least im saving some money, monthly energy bills have come down £140


Sorry to hear that mate what was the problem if you don’t mindme asking.

[familyman]

i dont know tbh.