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View Full Version : Celotex/kingspan V Jablite



Limey
14-07-2011, 02:21 PM
Seen this used on I think the Freddy build... was real interesting reading... can someone cast any light on advantages/disadvantages between the 2? I am really thinking in terms of insulation.

Thanks :)

hardip
14-07-2011, 05:25 PM
Lining the pond internally with Cellotex?

freddy
14-07-2011, 07:07 PM
Hi Limey.

There were a few reasons why I used Jablite. Firstly, it was readily available from my local B&Q. Secondly, it's lightweight and therefore easy to transport. Thirdly, it's very easy to work with, you can rip through it easily with a saw. Fourthly, it's a lot cheaper than Celotex. Finally (and most important in my case), it's waterproof, Celotex isn't. You'll note from my thread that I had real problems with water coming in through the sides. There are two grades of Jablite, and if I remember correctly (I could be wrong here), the 'premium' grade has a higher thermal rating, meaning it SHOULD insulate better. Hope this helps.

Cheers...Freddy.

Limey
14-07-2011, 08:33 PM
Hardip.. yes after seeing about jablite in Freddies build it got me interested.

Freddy... yes I remember, and missed the waterpfoof bonus... that is a real plus and if laid on floor as well as sides would you say its good enough as an underlay Freddy? I have read your build a couple of tiomes mate :).

eds
14-07-2011, 09:28 PM
So for underlay beneath a box-welded liner straight onto the soil would I be better using jablite than celotex?

Big_al
14-07-2011, 11:41 PM
So for underlay beneath a box-welded liner straight onto the soil would I be better using jablite than celotex?

Jablite is more expensive than celotex approx £8 compared to £6 a m2, neither are a moisture barrier and both are inert and rot proof. If you are using a liner moisture isn't going to be a problem anyway. The big advantage with celotex it seems to be more readily available on the net and in the larger 1200 x 2400 sheets. I will be using celotex for that reason plus it is cheaper as well.

Big Al,

freddy
15-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Hi Limey.


Freddy... yes I remember, and missed the waterpfoof bonus... that is a real plus and if laid on floor as well as sides would you say its good enough as an underlay Freddy? I have read your build a couple of tiomes mate :).

I used regular underlay doubled over for my build, as I needed to get it down quickly when I put my liner in. Also, I would have to have stood on it which would have crushed it, although there was probably a way of getting over this. But yes, I would say it would be ok on the floor, you just need to take into account the bottom drain.

As for cost, Jablite is £14.98 for an 8 pack (I'm talking the 25mm stuff) which covers over 4 sqm, which by my reckoning is less than £4 a sqm. Also, when considering using Celotex, I couldn't get any assurances that once cut, it would remain waterproof.

eds, I don't think it's a goer, using any kind of board straight onto earth.

Cheers...Freddy.

markf1fan
15-07-2011, 03:14 PM
why don't you use sand on the bottom

Big_al
15-07-2011, 09:16 PM
......... Also, when considering using Celotex, I couldn't get any assurances that once cut, it would remain waterproof.

eds, I don't think it's a goer, using any kind of board straight onto earth.

Cheers...Freddy.

Freddy, I am interested in why there is an importance that the boards are waterproof when using a box liner?

Big Al,

freddy
15-07-2011, 09:22 PM
Hiya Big al.


.....Finally (and most important in my case), it's waterproof, Celotex isn't. You'll note from my thread that I had real problems with water coming in through the sides.....

Cheers...Freddy.

Big_al
16-07-2011, 12:22 AM
Hiya Big al.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy
.....Finally (and most important in my case), it's waterproof, Celotex isn't. You'll note from my thread that I had real problems with water coming in through the sides.....
Cheers...Freddy.


Cheers...Freddy.

Hi Freddy yes I understand that it was important in your case but I was wondering why? I am like you going to line my pond with an insulator before fitting a box liner. Unless I am missing something does it really matter if water is coming through the sides of the block work if you have fitted a box liner? I would understand if would were glassing the pond.

Cheers Al,

markf1fan
16-07-2011, 07:52 AM
Hi Freddy yes I understand that it was important in your case but I was wondering why? I am like you going to line my pond with an insulator before fitting a box liner. Unless I am missing something does it really matter if water is coming through the sides of the block work if you have fitted a box liner? I would understand if would were glassing the pond.

Cheers Al,

Hiya Big Al

i used a box welded liner but did not put any insulation. all i used was normal pond underlay. i have heard before that if water does come in behind the liner it can make a big bubble behind the liner which prob in time would course big probs,i think this is prob what freddy is getting at. mark

Big_al
16-07-2011, 08:02 AM
Hiya Big al.



Cheers...Freddy.


Hiya Big Al

i used a box welded liner but did not put any insulation. all i used was normal pond underlay. i have heard before that if water does come in behind the liner it can make a big bubble behind the liner which prob in time would course big probs,i think this is prob what freddy is getting at. mark

Mark, thanks, that shouldn't be a problem in my situation as I don' have a concrete base. Any water that gets between the liner and insulation would eventually make it way to the base and soak away.

Thanks AL,

freddy
16-07-2011, 09:01 AM
Hi again.

Sorry I didn't elaborate a bit more. My thinking was that I wanted something that wouldn't break down behind the liner. I was advised that Celotex COULD revert to just powder, how true this is I don't know, but I can only tell you what I was told. My original plan was to have the pond glassed, in which case I would have rendered the walls, but water coming in through the sides put paid to that. I thought long and hard about my options (one of them being to break it all down and start again, this time putting in a membrane first) and rightly or wrongly, this seemed my best course of action.

Cheers...Freddy.

Davej
16-07-2011, 09:37 AM
Hi all

Ive got a few bits of celotex that have been out in all weathers for more than a couple of years and they seem to be waterproof and haven't degraded:confused:

I think the problem with water ingress is most likely to come if you have to drain the pond. I would suggest that when the pond is full and the water level is above that of the ground water table any ground water behind the liner will be forced away by the increased head in the pond.

Dave - Are you going to heat the new pond? If not then I wouldn't use any insulation, particularly on the base.

Davej

freddy
16-07-2011, 11:31 AM
Hi Dave.


Ive got a few bits of celotex that have been out in all weathers for more than a couple of years and they seem to be waterproof and haven't degraded:confused:

Two things about that. Are the edges exposed ? Have they been immersed in water permanently ? As I said, I couldn't get any assurances that once the Celotex had been cut, it would remain waterproof, and I'd even been told (rightly or wrongly) that it may well revert to powder. Now, it may well be the case that there would be no problem, but because of the element of doubt, I wasn't prepared to take any chances. I've seen quite a lot of builds where Celotex has been used with no problems, it's just that in my particular case (with water coming in and the other reasons I've given) I thought that Jablite was the way to go. It may turn out I've made the wrong choice, only time will tell.

Cheers...Freddy.

ochiba110
16-07-2011, 01:15 PM
Freddy,i think you made the right decision according to this.

http://www.jablite.co.uk/site/technicaldata/4/4.pdf

As opposed to this.

Celotex Insulation | Technical (http://www.celotex.co.uk/Technical-Services/Further-Information/FAQs/Technical)

Big_al
16-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Freddy,i think you made the right decision according to this.

http://www.jablite.co.uk/site/technicaldata/4/4.pdf

As opposed to this.

Celotex Insulation | Technical (http://www.celotex.co.uk/Technical-Services/Further-Information/FAQs/Technical)

Yes the technical info for the celotek does state that it should be placed on the dry side of the damp proof course. The other info is for jablite clay master not premium. The one for premium Is below and does clearly state that it is rot proof.

Jablite Premium Board | Wall Insulation board | Jablite UK (http://www.jablite.co.uk/products/show/jablite-premium-board)


Cheers Al,

Cheers

Brufferssprouts
28-10-2012, 10:22 PM
Hi Limey.

There were a few reasons why I used Jablite. Firstly, it was readily available from my local B&Q. Secondly, it's lightweight and therefore easy to transport. Thirdly, it's very easy to work with, you can rip through it easily with a saw. Fourthly, it's a lot cheaper than Celotex. Finally (and most important in my case), it's waterproof, Celotex isn't. You'll note from my thread that I had real problems with water coming in through the sides. There are two grades of Jablite, and if I remember correctly (I could be wrong here), the 'premium' grade has a higher thermal rating, meaning it SHOULD insulate better. Hope this helps.

Cheers...Freddy.

Sorry, but you're offering duff info there!
Compare jablite v Celotex here and as you can see

The celotex calculator...
Celotex Insulation | High Performance Thermal Insulation (http://www.celotex.co.uk)
..says that 75mm of GA3000 achieves around 0.23 which is ok (lower is better when it comes to U-Values).

The tables here..
Insulation | Expanded Polystyrene Insulation | EPS | Jablite (http://www.jablite.co.uk/)
suggest around 130mm is needed to achieve similar U-Value (0.22).

Jablite is a polystyrene based product - a fairly low grade insulator, there are far better available for any given thickness.
There is a reason why 100mm Jablite is £18 for a 1200x2400 sheet and the same sized Celotex is £40.
Oh, Celotex is waterproof too.
Just thought people ought to know.
Cheers

efficiencyman
29-10-2012, 01:50 AM
I used Celotex 100mm in my reinforced poured concrete floor and walls It was such a fast build, (from digging hole out to filling with water) the shuttering was a little masterpiece, total build time 6 working days on my own (appart from mixing concrete) that was 4 years ago. The insulation joints and polyeurethane coveing in the corners were ally taped the following day my fiberglasser went directly onto the Celotex. It has proved to be doing a fantastic job in holding stable temperatures.
Although I have heated my koi pond from the house C/H since my build, this year I am hopeing the insulation will enable my new 15Kw ( £1500 ) whole house ASHeatPump to heat effectively and not use any gas, this saving and the higher efficiency should have savings as the energy prices continue to rise each season.

Big_al
30-10-2012, 08:21 PM
I suggest you read Freddy's post again he does not compare the thermal properties of celotex and jablite. But jablite and jablite premium and as he correctly says jablite premium has the better u value. When I looked the celotex website said that it wasn't waterproof but that may have changed.

Cheers Al.