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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    New Pond - Pipework & Valves Help Please :)

    Hi

    Could somebody please assist me with which type of pipework, valves, and connectors to get for my new pond. The digger was in last weekend and i now have a nice big hole to start filling with concrete and blocks. I am completely new to this side of things and I don’t want to risk any simple errors. I have decided on the following equipment (pond is gravity fed)

    4” JBR Aerated bottom drain (do these generally require a bottom drain converter? 110mm to 4"?)
    3” Ultraskim Skimmer from Absolute Koi
    AEM Eazy Drum with built in UV
    JBR Bio Chamber
    Pump (not yet selected)

    After the bio chamber I am unsure what to do. I was considering 2” pipework to my waterfall, And another 2 inch pipework to a midwater return to aid with the “vortex” water flow of the pond itself. Does this sound sensible? Would this require 2 separate pumps?

    Could someone please describe what valves would be required for this setup and where they would go?

    Is a valve required before & after each piece of equipment? Is this Ott?
    And what types of valves would be required – and if you don’t mind me asking, for what reason that kind of valve is selected (just so I can learn a bit )

    Thanks for any assistance - as i move through i will start a proper pond diary. Any helpful tips or notable pitfalls anyone could identify would also be appreciated

    Pete



  2. #2
    In an ideal word you want to isolate all individual items of kit.
    For example, how do you replace a pump or uv if it packs up?
    Pump unions are good also but quite expensive so a lot of people use rubber boots.
    My tips are
    Stick to one “type” of pipe, ie, pressure.
    Use rubber connectors where possible unless you’re confident about your glueing skills and you don’t envisage changing anything at a later date.
    Ball valves are “better” than gate valves. I’ve used a mixture from Coastal Koi and the EA type from Absolute.
    Not a lot in it price wise, they’re both pretty decent. Even a 2” valve is massive though so make allowances for that when planning your pipework.
    The EA rubber connectors (bends and tees) are better than the generic cheap ones apart from the 4” ones which I don’t really like. The “Mission” 4” couplers are quite a bit better imo and a bit longer too.
    Hope that helps


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  4. #3
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    Its a way forward

    I see those 4" ball valves can be £100 a piece. Do the valves simply restrict/control water flow or do they allow an extra degree of wiggle room in disconnecting? I appreciate the question seems absolutely simple but ive never used them before. At £100 a pop i dont quite get why you would put a valve between e.g. a pump and a UV. Couldnt you save £100 and put your valves after the bio unit, turn your pump off, and then empty the water out for the UV? even if it takes water out of the pump as long as it is switched off is it necessary to isolate it further?


    So far im guessing a pair of ball valves before the drum filter, a pair of ball valves between drum and bio, and a pair of ball valves after the bio? More so to regulate flow between the units and keep water in the bio chamber if i had to change anything else. What about check valves? or non return valves - im saying the terms but they really are alien to me. Im trying to put together a "shopping list" so i can order now while i order other things and not be paying delivery fees each week on stuff that ive missed.


    Where i really get confused when looking through the forums is some pipework doesn't always seem to be very linear - Its not like a line goes from drain to drum to bio to pump to uv and to pond. Sometimes pipework almost appears to go back on itself for "balancing reasons". Or back flushing - all these sorts of things seem alien to me. Previously it was pump in pond - into a box of sponges with a uv and back into the pond . Ive read a bit about using ball vales in vertical locations where possible too?


    The other thing i wanted to confirm was pipe dimensions. If i have a 4" and a 3" going into the drum - and then 2 4" into the bio. How am i then best coming out of the bio? Does adding additional underwater returns as well as the waterfall benefit the pool water flow? and would i require 2 separate pumps and UV's to do this?

    Apologies for all the questions. I appreciate people taking the time to look.

    Thanks

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Oh don’t forget valves on your returns, or the water can flow back the other way. Sounds daft but I nearly bought one valve short forgetting my skimmer line return

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  8. #5
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstiles999 View Post
    Oh don’t forget valves on your returns, or the water can flow back the other way. Sounds daft but I nearly bought one valve short forgetting my skimmer line return
    Again - sounds silly but what sort of valve on what return? The return into the pond/waterfall?

    I could do with seeing a setup or a plan of somones setuyp to show what valves are in what places throughout the run from of pipework to get more of an understanding.

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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    My ponds have all been a learning curve both before & once built .

    The benefit of boot fittings , stop valves & non return valves have allowed me to cope with sudden breakdowns,adjustments to flow,leaks or changes in design. In my original design using a vortex and chamber I had to upgrade from a 2" to 2x 2" to finally a 4" between the vortex and bio to get the right flow without the pond emptying to quickly or chamber overflowing and return pump not drying out or getting air locks.

    Meanwhile the skimmer to the uv & seperate return directly back into the pond keeping a complete different circuit and flow which affected the balance. I had to fit non return valves to stop back flow into the vortex from the skimmer circuit. I used 2nd hand slide valves but soon found that they only slowed flow not stopped completely when changing the various parts. Ball valves work ( new or 2nd hand) therefore well worth the extra expense.

    Even when changing to a drum filter it took some time to find the sweet spot and adjust flow rates and fresh feed in supply so using valves was critical to keeping the pond full and the flow going when my drum filter failed after a few hours use ( which was sorted but required a day trip returning to the dealer for repair.

    Each pond will need tweaking between the theory and what it does in practise in my opinion so make it easier on yourself and above ground I use rubber connections below ground pressure pipe & solvent welded. Build redundancy into your system with more returns than you need, spare pump, extra bio than you think you will need as demand on the system quickly outgrows the original plan in my experience.

    keep smiling as you go as each problem becomes a learning curve. I too am currently with a hole in the ground awaiting concrete etc on the next big build but life gets in the way as does a bad back.

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  12. #7
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Personally I would use pressure pipe- because waste pipe although cheaper is just not designed for pipes that are full of water all the time and ball valves to fit are simply not manufactured. Your JBR bottom drain will fit 4" pressure pipe.

    Here is my (as simple as possible) summary of what you will need if you go with the pressure pipe. (if you don't then you will need an array of adapter sleeves all over the place):

    Gravity side of the system i.e. BD to the filters: 4" pressure pipe.
    1 4" ball valve (this is the expensive one, but slide valves always fail and a pond drain down required to change this valve so just not worth it IMO).
    4" pressure pipe (got to somewhere like pipestock.com for this if you want to buy long lengths as they can deliver this)
    4" swept bend for where the pipe turns upwards from underground (Coastal Koi have good prices for these and valves)
    4" bend (ideally swept but can use a 90) to take your pipe back to horizontal again to meet the filter
    4" rubber boot to connect to the drum (can't solvent weld to the drum itself)

    Gravity connection between drum and bio unit
    This pipework will need to be 4".
    To save costs you could use a 4" slide valve here as is a less critical valve if it ever needed to be replaced.
    You will need 2 rubber boots and bit of pipe, possibly a couple of bends depending on heights of the outlet and inlet.
    Minimise the bendiness of your pipe design as far as you can.
    Rubber boot 90s will allow you to jiggle with this if you have level problems after fitting!

    Pumped return side of the system
    Choose between 1.5" or 2" for this. I would personally go for the 2" as less flow restriction. some pumps are 1.5" inlet and outer though. Again I would use pressure pipe because the ball valves are designed for this. 2" ball valves are not anywhere near so expensive as 4" so don't fear them!

    You will need a rubber boot to fit the bio chamber outlet. This might well need to be a 4"-2" boot if the bio chamber has all 4" ports which most of them do.
    From this boot I would put a ball valve in the pipe next. You will need to close this one when you dump the chamber to waste for cleaning.
    Then your pump- connect this with either rubber boot or a union that can be unscrewed. Fittings to the actual pump depend on which pump you buy. The BSP female screw pressure pipe fittings will often fit onto a pump with a bit of ptfe tape on the thread if you want a lovely solid connection. if you do this not a boot then you must use a union or you will be unable to unscrew your pump afterwards
    Pump outlet- similar fittings, but check pump spec first as some have a different sized inlet and outlet!

    if you are going to run 2 returns then you next need a T fitting in the pipe to split th flow. After the T you will need a valve in each pipe, both so you can close it off when you need to and so you can balance the flow between the 2 things you are sending it to (midwater return and whatever waterfall thingy).
    I would fit those valves near the filters rather than at the pond end just so its easier to close them off if you are dumping the bio chamber or changing a pump etc. You definitely don't want them buried underground.

    You will then need to decide how you are joining those 2 pipes to your waterfall and pond.
    This might be simply drilled through pond wall and the end of the pipe trimmed and fibreglassed into. or you could use a fancy tangential return plate fitting at an angle is you fancy, JBR make these. if using a liner then a tank connector with flange sitting would be needed to get the seal.

    You will need some 2" bends for all the return pipework- the number depends on your design and where everything is going. I always find that I always need at least 1 more bend than I actually bought no matter how well planned the design was lmao

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  14. #8
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    Thanks @Feline for such an incredibly detailed response! Gives me a good confidence boost that im not missing anything!

    As i will have 2 inlets (BD & Skimmer) and 2 outlets from the drum, and therefore 2 inlets into the bio unit and out, I will be doubling up on everything on your list. One outlet from the bio chamber im guessing will be to pump - to UV - to 2 mid water returns. The other outlet to the waterfall

    So;
    Pressure Pipe (4"before bio, 2" after (plus 3" on skimmer line for absolutekoi ultraskim), rubber boots, ball valves (4"& 2)", slider valves between drum and bio. 3" to 4" boots on the skimmer line and 4" to 2" boots after bio chamber, swept bends. Anything else not mentioned?

    Im hoping to keep the pipework perfectly straight between the drum and bio chamber although will be able to get some advice on this next week. And no plans to use a liner. I was going to render and A1 paint as ive seen a couple do on the forums however my old man used to do some fibreglassing with models and is generally quite handy, at the moment he wants to have a go at the pond - Still debating this one

    Thanks to everyone for the time taken in your responses - Im hoping to order all of this next week - along with getting the drum and bio chamber so i'm confident at the digging levels of filtration area next to the pond. Its going to be an expensive month


    **EDIT - Ive attached an image i have quickly drawn of the pipework flow plus a small sketch of the pond shape. Does this look right to everyone? - Only thing i know to be different at the moment is if i can get the UV in the drum i will. And no idea why i wrote slide valve one side then ball valve the other! doh!!!!

    2019_07_30 17_21 Office Lens.jpg
    Last edited by gpt1985; 30-07-2019 at 05:28 PM.

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  16. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    You can certainly do it that way if you want to have 2 pumps. You could simply use one of the exit ports though and just use the one pump if you wanted.

    I would recommend going with variable flow pumps, overspecced for the max flow you're planning in any case.
    They run with epic efficiency when at less than their max power so save you money in electricity, whilst at the same time allowing you to tweak the flow in your system and even change it summer VS winter. I do this in my pond- I only need a 30mins-1h pond turnover when feeding heavily, I can turn it down to closer to 2h in winter when not feeding.

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  18. #10
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    Well that obviously sounds far more sensible.

    How would the pipework run after the pump and UV then? I was looking for multiple pond inlets to help direct flow as well as one at the waterfall?Is it just a matter of having multiple Tees and then using the ball valves to regulate?

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  20. #11
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Yeah you can just add multiple Ts and valves to balance the flow.

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  22. #12
    gpt1985, your setup will be very similar to mine. The only thing I would do different is use pressure pipe as Feline said, as the cost is negligible once you pay for adapters etc. It would also be all the same colour which would make me happier.

    I have a Filtreau Drum which is the same as the AEM Easy Drum and a JBR Bio chamber which has 2x 4" inputs and 2x 2" outputs. The Easy drum has 2x 4" inputs and 1x 4" output.

    The first picture shows the bottom drain feed coming up. You will see a gate valve which i originally used, solvent welded onto 110mm waste pipe. It leaks alot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60d5P4pNGc) so using rubber adaptors from Toolstatioon i attached a 4" ball valve which has been faultless.




    The second picture shows the two inputs going into the drum filter. From the left is the skimmer feed which i used 110mm waste pipe and the second 4" ball valve using rubber adaptors from toolstation



    I only used 2x 4" ball valves in mysetup. Some people use 3" for their skimmer line but its personal preference at the end of the day.

    The third picture shows the two 2" outputs from the JBR bio chamber. Using 2" boots i attached this to 50mm waste pipe which has two 2" ball valves which then connects to two Jeabo variable 18,000 litre pumps running at about 50% for redundancy.



    The pumps then connect to my 3 returns (1 water fall, and 2 mid returns) I bypass the shower in the winter and use a mid return. I should of plumbed all this in 2" or 50mm but did 40mm hence the pipe size drop down. If i would do this again I would do it all in 2". I also used the Kockney Koi valves here which are utter garbage. Having valves on both sides of the pumps allows me to isolate completely to remove a pump if needed.

    The last picture shows the drum connecting to the bio. This is done by 110mm waste pipe to rubber boot connectors. These are not level because the Bio is about 700mm tall and the drum needs to be higher than the water level. I have no ball valve on here as I can isolate at other points.



    Hope this gives you a bit of a visual look.

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  24. #13
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    Again thanks for the incredibly detailed reply - Its given me all of the info i hoped to get from this thread and more! Hopefully others new guys can use it to the same effect!

    Just need to get the concrete base poured now and start building the blocks up! Holes dug so it needs to happen soon but the weathers been a nightmare!

  25. #14
    Member Rank = Nisai gpt1985's Avatar
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    Guys ive come across something that wasn't mentioned before in this. I purchased all my pipework and have since purchased a draco drum and bio unit and noticed the fittings to be a little slack! From the looks of it, this is me not realising the difference between pressure pipe (which seems to be advised) and standard water pipe (which the drum seems to be built for) - ie 115mm to 110mm. In terms of connecting my pipework now - Will a rubber boot take out this difference? or should i be using "sleeves" similar to those found here https://www.coastal-koi.com/shopping.php?class_id=241 - and what would be the best way to connect them? (this may be obvious but since i havent purchased any boots or sleeves yet i just want to check)

    Thanks again

 

 

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