Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053

    Hello and a bit of advice sought please.

    Hi, thought I'd say hello and ask for thoughts at the same time.

    I've been keeping Koi for 20 years now, like many i first started off with way too small a pond and after several reworks and a house move the last pond was 5000 Gallon and way overstocked but never had any real problems.
    Anyway, after some ill health in the family we moved back to Lancashire having been living in the Scottish Highlands for the last 11 years, inherited with the house a tiny shallow 700 gallon pond with a dustbin filled with ceramic tiles for the filter.
    That obviously had to change but money being short these days I had to go the basic hole in the ground route with liner and pump feed to filter so nothing fancy, 2200 Gallon and a little shallow at only a metre deep, filtration by a second hand multibay with a pressure filter before it with just the foams in to act as a pre-filter to keep the worst of the solids from finding their way into the multibay.

    Alls been going reasonably well, still a work in progress as new ponds always are, pond was started with the inhabitants of the inherited pond and with the slow addition of two small koi ended up with 7 Koi, 5 are tiddlers at about 6", 2 about 10", and 4 old goldfish. Apart from a little bit of algae trouble all has been good, there is heron activity in the area so I have a water jet scarer and lots of canes making a perimeter fence and twine running across the top.
    So water quality always tests pretty good though amonia runs at approx 0.1 mg/l (ppm) nitrites non existent, just a trace of nitrate. New pond has been running since february.
    Six weeks ago, all seeming reasonably well I treated myself to Gin Rin Kohaku, 14" long, only an Israeli from the Koi Pool but I was really taken by it. That was going to be all the inhabitants given pond size and expected future growth of inhabitants.

    And now to the problem, that fish has always been skittish, flying off down the pond at the slightest disturbance but nevertheless a keen feeder and seemingly healthy, no odd behaviour from any of the other fish.

    So, 7a.m this morning, I find two ducks sat on the pond, all fish down the other end from the ducks but not acting too bothered by their presence. Ducks chased away I noticed I couldn't see the Kohaku, then I found it 3 foot from the pond, probably dead about an hour, no damage other than scale loss where it had apparently flapped about.

    I'd appreciate thoughts on this, water was tested yesterday, no issues, partial water change sodium thiosulphate used, no apparent issues. Could it just have jumped, due to the visiting ducks, it really was a skittish thing, other potential causes of jumping, could the local heron have joined the ducks and hoiked it out despite the defences ? ( I'm doubtful given the lack of damage I found, just missing scales)

    I know it really isn't the finest pond given the lack of spare money to invest but I'm not ready to leave this hobby yet, and to be honest I've done better with worse in the past. Thoughts please.


    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. Thanks freddyboy, Frimley Koi keeper Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    Hi, thought I'd say hello and ask for thoughts at the same time.

    I've been keeping Koi for 20 years now, like many i first started off with way too small a pond and after several reworks and a house move the last pond was 5000 Gallon and way overstocked but never had any real problems.
    Anyway, after some ill health in the family we moved back to Lancashire having been living in the Scottish Highlands for the last 11 years, inherited with the house a tiny shallow 700 gallon pond with a dustbin filled with ceramic tiles for the filter.
    That obviously had to change but money being short these days I had to go the basic hole in the ground route with liner and pump feed to filter so nothing fancy, 2200 Gallon and a little shallow at only a metre deep, filtration by a second hand multibay with a pressure filter before it with just the foams in to act as a pre-filter to keep the worst of the solids from finding their way into the multibay.

    Alls been going reasonably well, still a work in progress as new ponds always are, pond was started with the inhabitants of the inherited pond and with the slow addition of two small koi ended up with 7 Koi, 5 are tiddlers at about 6", 2 about 10", and 4 old goldfish. Apart from a little bit of algae trouble all has been good, there is heron activity in the area so I have a water jet scarer and lots of canes making a perimeter fence and twine running across the top.
    So water quality always tests pretty good though amonia runs at approx 0.1 mg/l (ppm) nitrites non existent, just a trace of nitrate. New pond has been running since february.
    Six weeks ago, all seeming reasonably well I treated myself to Gin Rin Kohaku, 14" long, only an Israeli from the Koi Pool but I was really taken by it. That was going to be all the inhabitants given pond size and expected future growth of inhabitants.

    And now to the problem, that fish has always been skittish, flying off down the pond at the slightest disturbance but nevertheless a keen feeder and seemingly healthy, no odd behaviour from any of the other fish.

    So, 7a.m this morning, I find two ducks sat on the pond, all fish down the other end from the ducks but not acting too bothered by their presence. Ducks chased away I noticed I couldn't see the Kohaku, then I found it 3 foot from the pond, probably dead about an hour, no damage other than scale loss where it had apparently flapped about.

    I'd appreciate thoughts on this, water was tested yesterday, no issues, partial water change sodium thiosulphate used, no apparent issues. Could it just have jumped, due to the visiting ducks, it really was a skittish thing, other potential causes of jumping, could the local heron have joined the ducks and hoiked it out despite the defences ? ( I'm doubtful given the lack of damage I found, just missing scales)

    I know it really isn't the finest pond given the lack of spare money to invest but I'm not ready to leave this hobby yet, and to be honest I've done better with worse in the past. Thoughts please.
    Hi mate and welcome. Sorry to hear of your fish jumper mate.
    Probably scared and jumped.
    Over the birds.
    Don t knock yourself with what a pond looks like mate. At the end of the day it's a water holder.
    So long as the fish are in healthy water.
    Who cares. and you obviously enjoy the hobby. After keeping fish all these years.
    Welcome and enjoy. Where all friendly mate.
    Again sorry about the jumper
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  4. Thanks arceye, Frimley Koi keeper Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Cheers Fred, Just shook me a bit, I have never lost one this way in all the years I've had them, last house was in the middle of nowhere surrounded by all sorts of wildlife but nothing ever bothered to visit despite lots of waders, geese, swans, herons etc inhabiting nearby wetland. I guess in towns with more and more loss of habitat our puddles are perhaps more attractive to the wild critters.
    Pretty sure it wasn't the local heron, as he had already found the previous pond (hence my efforts at perimeter fencing) but the fish would spend the day plastered to the bottom or hiding in pots after he dropped by but no such activity today.

  6. Thanks freddyboy, Frimley Koi keeper Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    It's not nice losing fish mate. It is gutting.
    Hope you can keep the birds out mate.
    Enjoy the fish and pond mate
    Take care
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  8. Thanks arceye, Frimley Koi keeper Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    Sorry to hear about your loss as Fred mentioned never nice.

    You could use a net over the pond as that stops them getting out and other unwanted things getting in? Just make sure you get a black net as it disappears against the back ground of the water.

  10. Thanks arceye, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Thanks, yes, its certainly an option, I had one over the old pond last year and have been hoping to avoid it with the new one. I just don't like them and find it makes maintenance hard work, but, if I keep having issues I guess there will be no other choice really.

    Cheers

  12. Thanks Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  13. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    Thanks, yes, its certainly an option, I had one over the old pond last year and have been hoping to avoid it with the new one. I just don't like them and find it makes maintenance hard work, but, if I keep having issues I guess there will be no other choice really.

    Cheers
    As your pond is an informal shape it would be difficult to make a frame with a net attached to it that could be easily removed so another option would be drill and put screws in around the perimeter of the pond and then you could hook the net over the heads of the screws to hold it in place, just need to be careful not to drill too close to the edges of the slabs etc in case you break an edge off.

  14. Thanks freddyboy, arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Cheers, I came out to the Ducks having a smashing time splashing around this morning,I swear if there was a water slide the buggers would have been going down it giving me the finger. Chased them off again and they spent the next 2 hours watching me from the roof of next doors garage.

    Ah well, no losses this time but even if they didn't harm the fish there is pollution and parasites to think about, so I've now netted the half of the pond they have been playing on where the water jetter doesn't quite cover. I've ordered more net so assuming they now play in the other half I can do that in the next day or so.

    In the end I've cut my bamboo cane fence down to a foot high, covered over with net and then brought the ends down to the ground and pegged them between the flags and round the edges , at least that way the net stays a foot above the water and should be secure. I caught the heron when the net was on the old pond last year pushing it down into the water and trying to stab through it so this should be better.

    Only fly in the ointment is the Dragon Flies wont get at the water when both sides are netted which seems a shame as they are great to watch, but then you can't have everything I suppose.

  16. Thanks Trace, Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #9
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    2,214
    Thanks / Likes
    1514
    Electric fence might change their minds ...

  18. Thanks arceye, Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Long Eaton
    Posts
    712
    Thanks / Likes
    1372
    Maybe try some strong invisible fishing line crisis crossed above the pond

  20. Thanks arceye, Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    There was all sorts of twine strung about that pond perimeter and crisscrossed over the top of it. I was pretty chuffed as I thought Mr Heron was beat... then he sent the ducks in one came out of a six inch gap at the bottom of the fencing yesterday, the other managed to take off full wingspan out of the pond and miss all the twine...

    Thought about electric fences but they can still come in from above, the invisible fishing line could cure that but in the end I'm worried they'll get in and not be able to get back out or injure themselves.

    On the upside, no sign of Duck activity this morning, though its probably only a matter of time til I find them swimming in the spray from the water jetter... the term water off a Ducks back springs to mind.

  22. Thanks Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    Quote Originally Posted by arceye View Post
    Only fly in the ointment is the Dragon Flies wont get at the water when both sides are netted which seems a shame as they are great to watch, but then you can't have everything I suppose.
    We had a big dragon fly in our house last year and it had a wingspan of at least 4". Not sure if the cat brought it in or it just flew in but I managed to net it and let it out the front door before the cat did get hold of it.

    The dragon fly nymphs? look like something out of a sci fi movie

  24. Thanks arceye, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  25. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    They are pretty cool as insects go, in prehistoric times the adults had a wingspan of about 2 foot they say. Wouldn't one of those in either the kitchen or the pond, those nymphs are quite the predator too
    .

  26. Thanks Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    I know what you mean. They have a big set of jaws or pinchers from memory don't they?

  28. Thanks arceye, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Yes, pretty scary stuff if you scaled them up in size.... Dragonfly mouth is pretty mean but the Nymphs are something else. A linky to Youtube if you like stuff like that. It shows the Nymphs in good detail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHo_9wnnUTE

  30. Thanks Frimley Koi keeper, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    I was going to say it reminded me of the Alien

  32. Thanks arceye, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  33. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    Talk about timing, my cat just walked in with a winged creature in it's mouth which turned out to be a starling I think. It was difficult to see as I chased the little bugger out of the house round the back garden and was just about to grab the cat as it turned round and ran straight into me which made it drop the bird and it flew off before the cat could recapture it. Good knows what the neighbours thought as I was clapping and swearing and the cat trying to distracte it lol

  34. Thanks freddyboy, arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  35. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai arceye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Cleveleys, Lancs
    Posts
    880
    Thanks / Likes
    2053
    Cats are Evil, I don't let ours out since me moved back to a town as they have never known real traffic but I'll bet the wildlife round the last place sighed with relief when we moved away. Used to bring back rats, voles, mice, moles, anything feathered then meow at the window wanting let in....

  36. Thanks freddyboy, Frimley Koi keeper Thanked / Liked this Post
  37. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    13,534
    Thanks / Likes
    19230
    That's cats for you lol

    She had to choose the hottest day of the year so far

  38. Thanks freddyboy, arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  39. #20
    My last moggy used to be partial to rabbits and slowworms. He was part Lion I think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  40. Thanks arceye, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:17 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.