Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 134
  1. #1

    New breeze block pond build.. Help!!

    Hi guys. I'm new to the site and just wanted some advice.. I have just built a pond.. 3.8metres long by 1.4metres wide by 1.3metres deep. I built from breeze block laid flat. I put a strengthener pillar in the middle of longest side and put chamfered internal corners back filled with concrete for shelves. Was just wondering if you guys had experience or advice as to whether you think this is strong enough for 7000litres of water. I would like to add that I have got decking all around pond which is tied in to breeze blocks.
    I'm at the point of buying a liner but want to make sure it's stable enough prior to filling.
    I have photos if someone could explain how to upload.
    Ta ryan


    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Binary1927; 10-10-2018 at 09:15 PM.

  2. Thanks freddyboy, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Livingston Scotland
    Posts
    595
    Thanks / Likes
    877
    Hi Binary,

    Welcome to the forum. From your photos this looks more than adequately strong for 7000 litres of water. The greatest dependancy normally is on the quality of your mortar and if you have got your mix quantities correct then you are sorted. The mix is normally 4/5:1 for the cement you normally buy at the Builders Merchants, and conversely too much cement weakens the mix which is where a lot of folk go wrong. You are at the minimum suggested depth for your pond and more water is actually less difficult to manage. Building above the height of your deck would help to add water volume and help to stop any of your fish jumping out (if any tried it). I don't see any pipework so I am imagining that there is no bottom drain which is where everyone is heading these days. Doing some retrospective work to fit in a bottom drain would pay dividends before you complete your decking.

    Kenny

  4. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Hi Kenny.
    Thanks for your response.
    I am relieved that you believe the pond should be strong enough. I made my mortar mix at approximately 3:1 ratio as this is what I thought was the norm. I initially wanted to go another 2 blocks higher as I didn't want my children to fall in, but I was a bit dubious about the strength with it being so high. I didn't think about fish jumping out, can this be a problem?
    As for bottom drain. I am hoping to fit 1 prior to liner going in. I'm thinking of core drilling 4" out through side as I don't want to come out through longest side as the strengthening pillar is there. Would I need to cement all the floor base or could I just cement around pipework and use sand elsewhere.

    Thanks Ryan

  6. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Livingston Scotland
    Posts
    595
    Thanks / Likes
    877
    Binary1927,

    Your mortar mix should have been 4 or 5:1, at 3:1 what you have done is actually reduce the strength of the mortar not strengthened it as you hoped. There is loads of info online to read up about it. Your box isn't that big anyway so there is not a whole lot of water pressure. A wee tip here, when I mix mortar these days I use a known measure say a 2 litre bucket and mix the desired quantities by using the bucket to get the measures accurate. My wee mixer works fine with 8 litres of sand and 2 of cement and if I want to mix more then I can accurately add more. Another thing which can weaken your mix is the quantity of water, too much again makes the mix weaker, you are actually better adding a plasticiser into the mortar and using less water.

    Yes fish may jump out, they possibly don't mean to but it does happen. Cannot see it is a big problem increasing the height of your box, it may be worth thinking about a window (I know - more expense). I don't have one but wish that I did. Another alternative would be a glass balustrade type of thing around the top of the pond. My pond which is mostly in the ground and just above ground level has a brick wall which comes up another 18 - 24 inches and a balustrade (when I fit it) at the point where kids could run ito the pond. Kids will be really attracted to the pond so I would think about their safety foremost, never mind a wee party on your decking and somebody simply inadvertantly steps in.

    If you think of 1000 litres of water as a metric ton then there is a fair weight of water on the floor of the pond so I would have a concrete base. Get your 4" pipework in first and dig it into the ground or screed it over with hard core, You are going to need a minimum of 4 inches of (correctly mixed) concrete and some would say more. Put a bit of a slope to your bottom drain, doesn't have to be much but every little helps. Your bottom drain doesn't necessarily have to be slap bang in the middle. Be thinking about your filtration type etc and where it is going to be, this takes up a lot more space than you initially think.

    There are loads of pond builds on this forum and lots of folk have gone through the learning curve just like you are. There are some things I wish that I had thought about more when I built my pond and would probably do some different stuff if I did it again.

    Kenny

  8. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #5
    Hi Kenny, thanks for the valuable information. All your points have been taken. I think I will go for a concreted base with a bottom drain. I am thinking of running s nexus 220 feeding a uv then returning to pond. There is an area at rear of pond near the wall where I plan on sinking filtration below decking and boxing over the top area which sits above pond. My plan is to just start by fitting drain and liner and filling with water first. I will leave it filled for a while to prove the build is strong enough. Then if its OK I will then purchase equipment. How long do you think I should leave it filled to prove its strength?
    I did think about a viewing window but I opted out for 2 reasons, cost and my expertise at fitting one.
    I may add a fish viewing dome later on. They look pretty neat.
    I plan on raising the pond another row of blocks and somehow utilising the pergola for adding protection for kids falling in and from dreaded herons, But that will be at a later date.
    As for the mortar mix. I did use your tip and measured accurately with buckets albeit at 3:1 I'm just keeping my fingers crossed it holds. I will keep you all updated with pics as and when it happens.

    Thanks for your reply
    Ryan

  10. Thanks freddyboy, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  11. #6
    Just on the viewing dome... they seem great in brochures but in real life they are a pain. Algae grows on the inside, obscuring the view and the fish rarely pop their heads in long enough for you to have a good look at them. The dome also takes up more space than you think.

  12. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Toffee View Post
    Just on the viewing dome... they seem great in brochures but in real life they are a pain. Algae grows on the inside, obscuring the view and the fish rarely pop their heads in long enough for you to have a good look at them. The dome also takes up more space than you think.
    Hi toffee.
    Didn't think of the algae side of things.
    I did notice on YouTube that people were enticing them in with food.
    I may give that a miss then...
    Next steps for me is ordering BD and a liner. I was thinking of getting the Tommy 4" bottom drain as it seems cheaper than the jbl aerated type... Not sure what liner to order. I have limited funds this year to finish the build. I'm hoping to get plumbing, filter(nexus 220 second hand) , liner, drain, electrics, and render finish for £1500.
    Ambitious I know but fingers crossed.


    Cheers ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  14. Thanks freddyboy, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #8
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Your pond looks strong enough to me.
    The important thing to note is that it is depth that is the most importamt factor when considering pressure, not volume. How much of your pond is above ground level? The below ground parts have the additional support of the soil so are not such a factor. My pond is also built with blocks laid flat, and is 80cm (7 courses) above ground- its 2 years old and has not fallen down yet

    Adding more courses of blocks wont make any difference to fish jumping out. It is the level you decide to have your water at compared to the top of the pond which is more a factor there. Leaving a few inches of wall above reduces the risk of jumping, but does not look as nice and wastes potential pond volume. There are things you can do to stop jumping if you have issues with it after the build. My pond now has jump guards on top of the walls
    IMG_5368 by Lara Day, on Flickr

  16. Thanks freddyboy, Liam77, Carlo boni Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Your pond looks strong enough to me.
    The important thing to note is that it is depth that is the most importamt factor when considering pressure, not volume. How much of your pond is above ground level? The below ground parts have the additional support of the soil so are not such a factor. My pond is also built with blocks laid flat, and is 80cm (7 courses) above ground- its 2 years old and has not fallen down yet

    Adding more courses of blocks wont make any difference to fish jumping out. It is the level you decide to have your water at compared to the top of the pond which is more a factor there. Leaving a few inches of wall above reduces the risk of jumping, but does not look as nice and wastes potential pond volume. There are things you can do to stop jumping if you have issues with it after the build. My pond now has jump guards on top of the walls
    IMG_5368 by Lara Day, on Flickr
    Hi feline.

    Your pond looks wicked.. I love it..

    My pound is 100% above ground but only 2 breeze blocks above water.. There is still a bit of work to do... There are pictures of my project at start of thread.. I may take it a bit higher..

    Thanks
    Ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  18. Thanks freddyboy, Feline Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Hi ryan. Wecome to the forum mate.
    Looks like you have been busy there mate.
    Looks good to me. And good advice from kenny and feline.
    As you have already thought things through. A bottom drain is a must.
    Also if you can go for a box liner.
    Less creases to hide the nasties.
    More exspensive. Bjt better in the long run.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    wakefield,west yorkshire
    Posts
    3,491
    Thanks / Likes
    3764
    welcome ryan,nice build,my advice is dont bother with concrete base,save money and use a good layer of sand,the kockney koi bottom drains are ok just dont overtighten screws on liner ring,and use pressure pipe,although as i found out the converter from standard 110mm pipe to pressure doesnt fit in the bd hole very well,i had to build the hole up with solvent weld before it felt safe,and use plenty of good silicone on things that need it,as freddy has said a box weld liner is worth it,no unsightly creases in corners,as for aerated bd you could do as ive done,standard bd but got an aerated dome and retrofit it,or stick a large airstone on top of kk bd dome,and use ball valves not slide valves on pipework,andi

  21. Thanks john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  22. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Hi ryan. Wecome to the forum mate.
    Looks like you have been busy there mate.
    Looks good to me. And good advice from kenny and feline.
    As you have already thought things through. A bottom drain is a must.
    Also if you can go for a box liner.
    Less creases to hide the nasties.
    More exspensive. Bjt better in the long run.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    Hi freddy.

    Thanks for the reply. Sand would be cheaper.. But would you advise to concrete the BD pipework into its channel and blend the sand until it meets it.
    Also what about underlay.. I have seen people on YouTube use carpet,polystyrene or proper underlay. And do I just underlay sides or do I do bottom also.

    Sorry for all the questions.

    Ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  23. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  24. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    welcome ryan,nice build,my advice is dont bother with concrete base,save money and use a good layer of sand,the kockney koi bottom drains are ok just dont overtighten screws on liner ring,and use pressure pipe,although as i found out the converter from standard 110mm pipe to pressure doesnt fit in the bd hole very well,i had to build the hole up with solvent weld before it felt safe,and use plenty of good silicone on things that need it,as freddy has said a box weld liner is worth it,no unsightly creases in corners,as for aerated bd you could do as ive done,standard bd but got an aerated dome and retrofit it,or stick a large airstone on top of kk bd dome,and use ball valves not slide valves on pipework,andi
    Hi andi.

    Thanks for the advice.

    By pressure pipe do you mean standard soil pipe (orange stuff)
    I thought maybe I could by pipework that fits the BD as opposed to having to use a converter... Thanks for the feedback

    Ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  25. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  26. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Binary1927 View Post
    Hi andi.

    Thanks for the advice.

    By pressure pipe do you mean standard soil pipe (orange stuff)
    I thought maybe I could by pipework that fits the BD as opposed to having to use a converter... Thanks for the feedback

    Ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
    Do you think I may have problems with a box liner because I have chamfered corners and they are both different sizes.

    Thanks for all your input guys.

    It is all noted.

    Ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  27. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  28. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    welcome ryan,nice build,my advice is dont bother with concrete base,save money and use a good layer of sand,the kockney koi bottom drains are ok just dont overtighten screws on liner ring,and use pressure pipe,although as i found out the converter from standard 110mm pipe to pressure doesnt fit in the bd hole very well,i had to build the hole up with solvent weld before it felt safe,and use plenty of good silicone on things that need it,as freddy has said a box weld liner is worth it,no unsightly creases in corners,as for aerated bd you could do as ive done,standard bd but got an aerated dome and retrofit it,or stick a large airstone on top of kk bd dome,and use ball valves not slide valves on pipework,andi
    Hi guys.
    I am ready to order BD and pipework..
    Would all the following fit each other.

    Thanks
    Ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  29. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    i have tried them yellow handled ball valves 2 of them broke. handles snapped. i have found the blue handled ones and red handled ones are better ryan. i have all blue on my pond build. and yellow and red on my qt build.
    slowly replacing the yellow ones. a couple are stiff. the blue ones are more pricey. the bottom drain. i cannot help. as i have a spindrifter bottom drain. leave that for someone else. who has one similar

  30. Thanks anne Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    i have tried them yellow handled ball valves 2 of them broke. handles snapped. i have found the blue handled ones and red handled ones are better ryan. i have all blue on my pond build. and yellow and red on my qt build.
    slowly replacing the yellow ones. a couple are stiff. the blue ones are more pricey. the bottom drain. i cannot help. as i have a spindrifter bottom drain. leave that for someone else. who has one similar
    OK.. I will look for blue ones... Do you think the pipe which is from a plumbers merchant will be adequate and more importantly the right size..
    Ta ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  32. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Quote Originally Posted by Binary1927 View Post
    OK.. I will look for blue ones... Do you think the pipe which is from a plumbers merchant will be adequate and more importantly the right size..
    Ta ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
    mine is all concreted in so I used pressure pipe solvent welded with quick drying clue. my advice is if its buried and out of site. is solvent weld the pipe. I would say as well pressure pipe. some people use but if you can see it. normal pipe is ok. joined with rubber boots.most use black solvent weld pipe and glue them with this wet and dry glue each to there own and depends on the budget





    Last edited by freddyboy; 14-10-2018 at 12:07 PM.

  33. Thanks anne Thanked / Liked this Post
  34. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    mine is all concreted in so I used pressure pipe solvent welded with quick drying clue. my advice is if its buried and out of site. is solvent weld the pipe. I would say as well pressure pipe. some people use but if you can see it. normal pipe is ok. joined with rubber boots.most use black solvent weld pipe and glue them with this wet and dry glue each to there own and depends on the budget





    Wicked stuff..

    Nice 1 freddy.. Will have a tinkle at what u said now..

    Cheers ryan

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  35. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  36. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Livingston Scotland
    Posts
    595
    Thanks / Likes
    877
    Binary1927,

    I cheaped out on some of my pipework and used standard drainage pipe for some of my build. The amount of pipework you need is quite small so I would look at www.pipestock.com PVC is normally least expensive but check ABS prices and prices for higher classes of pipe

  37. Thanks freddyboy, Binary1927 Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:14 PM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.