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  1. #1
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Page3's Avatar
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    Hello from Cumbria

    Evening all
    i am hoping you guys and gals will be able to advise me on the sanity or otherwise of my upcoming project. Thinking of a partial in ground koi pond, roughly rectangular, probably 3 feet or so out of the ground and three feet below. 33feet by 11 feet on plan. Very low tech jap mat and aeration filter system amounting to 27 feet long by 3 feet wide, in three 9 feet long segments, three bottom drains feeding same. All three separately pumped to a weir/waterfall as a partial Baku shower, I think, still works that, the remainder going to tangential returns. All pretty standard I seem to think.
    Any pointers please?
    cheers
    lee



  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum Lee, Cumbria is a lovely part of the country that's for sure. Full of Northerners though which lets it down...and the rain. Apart from that it's alright lol.

    Are your dimensions the internal finished dimensions?
    Any reason for the massive jap mat filter bay rather than a smaller moving bed and a bigger pond or maybe an anoxic chamber and a bigger pond. Either way, have a bigger pond mate There's a fair few options available depending on budgetary constraints.

    You could probably save at least one pump and the future associated running costs by doing something else (jap mat isn't cheap after all). Don't forget you have to get rid of your solid waste as well as allow for water changes. You also might want at least 1 skimmer on a pond that length.

    Do a little drawing, photograph it on your phone and post it up using the tapatalk app...picture paints a thousand word and all that.

    Other things that are worth reading up on are...
    possible heating requirments
    insulation
    liner or fibreglass
    drum filters
    "waste" disposal
    among a host of other things, and that's before you even get to fish.

    This is a good place to start Home

    Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs Lee, mainly curious to know why you chose the options you have.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Ah it's been a while since the great devide of the top northerners and the down and out southeners but we sharnt get in to that one haha . Welcome mate sounds a nice big pond but as bigcarpchaser says could be bigger drawing would be good . This is a great place to help I didn't realize just how many different ways to filter my pond that are out there and still havnt desided completely yet .

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    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  5. #4
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Page3's Avatar
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    Evening guys.
    I am keen to mildly heat the water and am being a little smaller than I could do on the pond. I have a long narrow garden, and the plan is to leave somewhere to sit and look at the Pennines onthree nights a year it is pleasant enough to sit out oop north. We are still managing skirmishing raids from the border clans, keeping you southerners snug and cosy....so, between sharpening pitch forks and axe helms it's good to watch fish.

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  7. #5
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Page3's Avatar
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    Many sanke, my hey likely.....
    most grateful of some in depth thoughts bigcarpchaser....
    I chase salmo salmo when I get the chance and when I can't salmo trutta.

  8. #6
    Lolol
    Nice one Lee, look forward to seeing your plans develop.
    Only messing about the northern thing, I love everyone me
    I gather from your reply you like a bit of fluff chucking?



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  10. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Life is for laughing

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai ^Dylan's Avatar
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    Hi from South Cumbria (Walney Island)

    Good luck with your build Lee

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  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    33 x 11 x 6 feet ...

    that's 61 cubic metres... 61,000 litres...

    how big do you guys want!

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  16. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Just round it up to a nice whole number 100,000 would do well bit worried on the size of drum and mb you would need tho

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  17. #11
    Go large or go home


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  19. #12
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Page3's Avatar
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    I did wonder if people were joking about going bigger...lol
    hi walney island resident, how's the wind? Every time I have been there it's been steadily blowing a moderate gale...
    tough oop north.
    Bigcarpchaser I do like fluff chucking, having given over maggot drowning in Cumbria as its still very much trout, trout and more trout. Coarse fishing is a bit special round here and most anglers here pursue the salmon familyas the default setting. As a kid we used to have to kill ALL coarse fish caught. Not even a joke. A little more enlightened now.
    does everyone think building above ground a super sturdy ply/scaffold board timber frame, as crazy/asking for trouble?
    what do you all think please and ta mucho
    lee

  20. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Page3 View Post
    does everyone think building above ground a super sturdy ply/scaffold board timber frame, as crazy/asking for trouble?
    what do you all think please and ta mucho
    lee
    I think your definition of 'super sturdy' and mine are very different given the materials you suggest.

    Whilst it is possible to build a wooden structure as a tank, and you are only talking about containing 1m of head, you have a 33 foot long (10m) 'wall'. Your likelihood of stopping that from significantly bowing with a wooden framework structure is pretty low. You will also run into issues of preventing rot. general plywood and scaffold boards are not treated to prevent rot. You'd need hardwood marine ply (not just WPB) and tanalised timber as a minimum.

    If you want to go wooden then the recognised way of doing it is with wooden sleepers and a rubber liner. Either pinned together with lengths of rebar into the concrete base, or screwed together with long timberlock screws. s in all things, there are wooden sleepers and then there are WOODEN SLEEPERS - you get what you pay for. Oak are best, untreated softwood would be disasterous.

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  22. #14
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Page3's Avatar
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    Hey brandlin thanks for the clear pointer....!
    the inner Yorkshireman in me took over for a moment, cheep n cheerful, owt for nowt mentality. Saw a you tube post on it and thought,mmmmm ask the experts! I think oak myself, ree barred as I have ready access to a local timber yard, knocking out pit props. yes I know they still make them! They are six inch by nine inch by five feet long, so will work as mega Lego blocks.
    inner face lined in shot fired wbp ply to add racking strength, then 50mm insulation, cel item will be cheap enough to buy after the c4 dispatches programme on Friday....then welded liner, trapped under last widened untreated oak capping to complete.
    The flank wall is the issue, I was thinking of splitting that long load down with returns outside the pond format for integrated seating dining area and of course filter beds, to reduce flexural considerations in these long walls.
    yesor no?
    cheers as ever learning loads mooching about on here, very helpful group of koi men!
    lee

  23. #15
    FWIW when I priced up my pond it was cheaper to construct in blockwork than decent sleepers laid flat although anyone could probably lay sleepers as a diy project, bit trickier to lay blocks.
    On balance, by the time I’d paid my chap and his labourer it probably worked about the same but didn’t cost me any “time”, if that makes sense. I was able to work (own businesses so tricky to take time off when busy)

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  25. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    You wont need ply on the inner face. The mass of the sleepers and the friction between them means just a few fixings between them is easily sufficient. Another reason for not adding the ply is it just creates more crevises for moisture to accumulate and aid rot.

    Likewise you may find you dont need the closed foam cell. Wood itself is a reasonable insulator and you will get away with cheaper woven material as a lining if what you are worried about is puncturing or abrading the liner on the wood surface.

    Remember WBP means Water and Boil Proof. But it only applies to the glue used ... sadly cheap ply is often labelled WBP even though its made from softwood cores and the wood itself decays because its not waterproof. If you want waterproof you have to go for genuine hardwood marine ply.

    6" x 9" x 5' is hefty enough - most "sleepers sold these days are 5" x 10" x 8'. With only 5' length you need to make sure you overlap well and drive a couple of timberlock screws though each overlap.

    Certainly any form of return on the long walls will be beneficial but with sleeper walls you may not need them - i think i'd add them in just to break up the line and add visual interest.

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