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  1. #41
    why i fitted anoxic and not bakki. ok first thing is cost the anoxic cost me £400 to make, a bakki would be 3 times that. would i fit a bikki if i had the money dam right i would lol. but for the money its anoxic for me.

  2. #42
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Not really sure where the Bakki v Anoxic really came from?

    First step is surely black box?

    Simon - Aesthetics wise, shower next to the pond is Butt ugly but can easily be addressed by having it remote - but having a surface area almost equal to that of the pond to house the multitude of baskets required to filter a Koi pond is hardly appealing aesthetically or acceptable to many ...

    Vince - Agree .. pragmatic and a decent punt ..

    Dave

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Not really sure where the Bakki v Anoxic really came from?

    First step is surely black box?

    Simon - Aesthetics wise, shower next to the pond is Butt ugly but can easily be addressed by having it remote - but having a surface area almost equal to that of the pond to house the multitude of baskets required to filter a Koi pond is hardly appealing aesthetically or acceptable to many ...

    Vince - Agree .. pragmatic and a decent punt ..

    Dave
    If it was true that you needed a surface area almost equal to the pond then I'd agree, however that isn't the case. When the footprint of Brian's anoxic was quoted as being the size needed for 24 baskets that wasn't strictly true. That just happens to be the amount of baskets in there, but there's plenty of room left for more and by no stretch of the imagination is the surface area of his anoxic filter almost equal to his pond . Mine is 2.3 m by .6m and currently holds 49 baskets with room for another nine. I don't need 49 baskets to filter my pond, I just felt like filling it so I could plant the top layer of baskets. I built the filter to make use of an almost unusable part of my garden next to the pond, that's why it is the size and shape it is, and unless people who have commented on my anoxic build thread are just humouring me the feedback on its aesthetic qualities is pretty positive.
    Black box is where I was up until six months ago, then it changed to pressure filter, then my allergy to three times a day cleaning of the pressure filter led me to search the internet for a better alternative that would fit in with the redesign of my garden, which led me to this forum and a lot of good advice, banter and interesting debates on anoxic filtration!! So I won't hear a bad word against black boxes as my black box was the first step on my journey to this forum

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  5. #44
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakki_shower I'm sure someone can find a picture of a nicely disguised shower to shoot me down in flames 😉


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Dave

    Nearly 30% of water being changed /recycled via the RO each week - At this time of year?

    Am I missing something - Why? Is that what's needed to keep the parameters on track?

    Do you think with the drum the need for exchange will reduce?

    Dave
    Dave/John,

    I'm not sure why anybody is confused. If my 45/50 Koi lived in a lake with 50,000 liters or more per Koi then I would not need any mechanical or bio filtration.

    My Koi live in a pond with less than 220 UK gallons per Koi. Assuming the Koi are fed the same and excrete the same amount of ammonia, the concentration per liter is much higher in my pond than the lake. In view of this, exceptional measures must be taken if I'm to give a good quality of life to my livestock.


  7. #46
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    I’m struggling to see the shower Simon?








    Upscaling your filter to my puddle that’s well stocked and fed with young growing Koi, I would be looking at 2,3m x 6m. Even a 1m x 2m area, would be an eyesore and a haven for midges.

    Dave

  8. #47
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Collins View Post
    Dave/John,

    I'm not sure why anybody is confused. If my 45/50 Koi lived in a lake with 50,000 liters or more per Koi then I would not need any mechanical or bio filtration.

    My Koi live in a pond with less than 220 UK gallons per Koi. Assuming the Koi are fed the same and excrete the same amount of ammonia, the concentration per liter is much higher in my pond than the lake. In view of this, exceptional measures must be taken if I'm to give a good quality of life to my livestock.

    Neatly swerved

    10000 gallons , high number of fish but moderate size, maybe weight wise equivilent to ten at 80cm?

    And you need to shift that amount of water at the low end of the season to keep things sweet? Is this on the TDS ?

    Did you catch the Mike Snaden article - Little pond, Big fish in KoiCarp mag a while back?

    Dave

  9. #48
    your filter looks so much pleasing to the eye than mine simon. i think they look so nice planted as well. don`t know of any other filter that preforms the same as the anoxic that looks as nice to the eye.

  10. #49
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... I like the industrial look of all filters
    If I could afford a stainless steel profi drum it would take pride of place in my setup

  11. #50
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    your filter looks so much pleasing to the eye than mine simon. i think they look so nice planted as well. don`t know of any other filter that preforms the same as the anoxic that looks as nice to the eye.
    One that cant be seen?

    If we kept a few goldfish then we could maybe not have the debate about filtration...

    Dave

  12. #51
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... I like the industrial look of all filters
    If I could afford a stainless steel profi drum it would take pride of place in my setup
    John - the feeder took many hours of discussion and considerable wining and dining to get it approved.

    Drum is simply a sieve in a rectangular box, nothing to get excited about except in its transformation of the pond.

    dave

  13. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    John - the feeder took many hours of discussion and considerable wining and dining to get it approved.

    Drum is simply a sieve in a rectangular box, nothing to get excited about except in its transformation of the pond.

    dave
    Noooo, drums are art

  14. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    I’m struggling to see the shower Simon?








    Upscaling your filter to my puddle that’s well stocked and fed with young growing Koi, I would be looking at 2,3m x 6m. Even a 1m x 2m area, would be an eyesore and a haven for midges.

    Dave
    Excellent pond Dave I really can't see the shower so I presume it's remote? Either that or really well hidden.
    Why would you need to upscale my filter to your pond and given that it's not too far from the 1m x 2m dimensions you quoted do you really think it's an eyesore? I thought I'd done a pretty good job of blending it in Brian has 24 baskets filtering his 6000 gallon pond and is reporting good water parameters and growth and to house 24 baskets could be a pretty small box given that the baskets can be stacked. Not too difficult to disguise by planting the top layer and some nice planting around the box. Equations on ammonia production per meter of fish and the capabilities of anoxic filtration to process that ammonia leading to assumptions about how many biocenosis baskets would be needed and their corresponding footprint are impressive but there may be false assumptions in those calculations if Brian is filtering 6000 gallons with 24 baskets? I know Brian is running a bead as well so maybe that's what's making the difference?
    Why will my anoxic filter be any more of a haven for midges than my pond? They are both bodies of moving water and the only difference between them is that the pond has fish in it and the anoxic doesn't.
    This anoxic debate keeps raising interesting points doesn't it? Long live lively discussions

  15. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon123 View Post
    Equations on ammonia production per meter of fish and the capabilities of anoxic filtration to process that ammonia leading to assumptions about how many biocenosis baskets would be needed and their corresponding footprint are impressive but there may be false assumptions in those calculations if Brian is filtering 6000 gallons with 24 baskets?
    To be honest my calculations are quite tongue in cheek, I really wouldn't hold them up as any kind of evidence. As all the figures I've used come from reasonably reputable sources I'd be happy to accept them as a guide but not really much more. I do honestly believe I prove that bakkis are more efficient than anoxic if you compare ammonia processing power by footprint, but is that fair? Probably not.
    I don't think baskets by size of pond is relevant, I'd say the filtration needs are based entirely on weight of fish and feeding amounts.
    But as you say, long live lively discussions Have you seen how many views this thread has had?

  16. #55
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon123 View Post
    Excellent pond Dave I really can't see the shower so I presume it's remote? Either that or really well hidden.
    Why would you need to upscale my filter to your pond and given that it's not too far from the 1m x 2m dimensions you quoted do you really think it's an eyesore? I thought I'd done a pretty good job of blending it in Brian has 24 baskets filtering his 6000 gallon pond and is reporting good water parameters and growth and to house 24 baskets could be a pretty small box given that the baskets can be stacked. Not too difficult to disguise by planting the top layer and some nice planting around the box. Equations on ammonia production per meter of fish and the capabilities of anoxic filtration to process that ammonia leading to assumptions about how many biocenosis baskets would be needed and their corresponding footprint are impressive but there may be false assumptions in those calculations if Brian is filtering 6000 gallons with 24 baskets? I know Brian is running a bead as well so maybe that's what's making the difference?
    Why will my anoxic filter be any more of a haven for midges than my pond? They are both bodies of moving water and the only difference between them is that the pond has fish in it and the anoxic doesn't.
    This anoxic debate keeps raising interesting points doesn't it? Long live lively discussions
    What are the lengths and approx weights of the Koi in your system Simon?

    Dave

  17. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    To be honest my calculations are quite tongue in cheek, I really wouldn't hold them up as any kind of evidence. As all the figures I've used come from reasonably reputable sources I'd be happy to accept them as a guide but not really much more. I do honestly believe I prove that bakkis are more efficient than anoxic if you compare ammonia processing power by footprint, but is that fair? Probably not.
    I don't think baskets by size of pond is relevant, I'd say the filtration needs are based entirely on weight of fish and feeding amounts.
    But as you say, long live lively discussions Have you seen how many views this thread has had?
    Ha ha, everyone loves to watch other people "arguing", controversy is always popular!

  18. #57
    hell them view have soon gone up lol think i may have to use proper grammar lol

  19. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    What are the lengths and approx weights of the Koi in your system Simon?

    Dave
    My setup is probably not the best to quote from but here goes. There are four Koi in my pond. One is 14 inches, the other three are about eight inches. Impressive eh there are a lot of fish in my pond but most of them are "only" goldfish and the biggest of them is only about ten inches. There is however a three foot sturgeon in there that eats all year round and is probably producing enough ammonia to go some way towards compensating for the fact that my koi collection is only in it's infancy As for weights I've honestly got no idea, like I said I'm new to this hobby and basically I inherited these fish from my father in law shutting down his pond.

  20. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    hell them view have soon gone up lol think i may have to use proper grammar lol
    Everyone loves you Vince, now you've joined in the view count will probably double For gods sake don't start with proper grammar, I'd never be certain it was really you I was talking to and not an imposter!

  21. #60
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon123 View Post
    My setup is probably not the best to quote from but here goes. There are four Koi in my pond. One is 14 inches, the other three are about eight inches. Impressive eh there are a lot of fish in my pond but most of them are "only" goldfish and the biggest of them is only about ten inches. There is however a three foot sturgeon in there that eats all year round and is probably producing enough ammonia to go some way towards compensating for the fact that my koi collection is only in it's infancy As for weights I've honestly got no idea, like I said I'm new to this hobby and basically I inherited these fish from my father in law shutting down his pond.
    So weight wise a couple of kilo of Koi tops?

    How deep is the pond?

    And how many Anoxic baskets do you have?

    Dave

 

 
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