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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    Unnecessary fish loss

    Put a skimmer in a few months ago, went away for weekend, came back to find one of my fish suffocated in the skimmer. It had obviously been searched for food.
    I contacted my local koi dealer and they said to gold seal a piece of pipe across so other fish could not get their entire head into the skimmer

    such a simple solution but I beg the questions. Why aren’t the manufacturers addressing this, I must take some of the blame as it had crossed my mind that fish may get trapped but I feel as a consumer that when you purchase a product it shouldn’t put your pets at risk

    I am probably a bit sensitive about it at the moment because the fish had a lot of potential, was getting good growth and great Colour but at the end of the day it is unnecessary loss of life that bothers me the most



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Totally agree with you Ianb.

    So many ridiculous and obvious warnings on labels, so many people suing food outlets for not warning them for such stupid things as chocolate containing milk.

    Even a sudden surge in America of people suing keyless car manufacturers because the car doesn't switch itself off when parked in an enclosed garage.

    Someone even tried to sue me because I sold a dog lead on eBay that allegedly snapped causing their dog to run into the road.

    Yet when it comes to pets such as Koi its just a case of profit over and above everything else and no real care for considering the wellbeing of the Koi. (Filter performance ratings being the most prolific lie).

    If a product is advertised specifically for a fish/koi pond then it should be safe for use in that environment.

    I hope your sending a complaint to the manufacturer.... I'd also mention the financial value as well as the "family pet" value of the Koi you lost. Outside of that the loss of a Koi's life will mean nothing to them.
    But do read the full instructions first so they can't use something against you.

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  5. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    I have the standard skimmer and it is made by company as in the games that are held every four years. It was fitted correctly but a koi can easily get over the weir, can’t see anything that I could have done wrong with the fitting. I suppose from there point of view as fish are various sizes it would be difficult to suit all sizes of fish but surely some bar across that could be height adjustable would greatly reduce the odds.
    I was also amazed that koi dealers don’t generally give advice on the chance of suffocation. Basically if a fish can get its head in as far as the gills then it’s at risk. The koi dealer who I will not mention has always took the time to advise me on many aspects of the hobby but also failed to warn me, he only told me how to solve the problem after the loss
    This is what I did.First cut a piece of solvent weld cut longer than the with of the skimmer. Cut down the middle for approx 1cm at both ends of the pipe then cut so half of of the pipe is left at each end, play about with the length so it’s a tight fit in the skimmer and position to height that stops the koi from being able to trap themselves
    Obviously water height will need to be Above or below the bar for the skimmer to work
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  7. #4
    I put 5 or 6 stainless steel bars (6-8mm diameter) horizontaly across the skimmer in front of the weir but recessed into the plastic.

  8. #5
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Sorry your fish died

    The skimmer you bought was made for swimming pools not koi ponds, which is why fish can get into it unfortunately.
    It's probably designed so a child cannot fit their head into it though.
    People do generally seem to mod them as described above to stop fish entering.

    But it does serve to make the specially designed koi pond skimmers seem better value- not even a small koi would fit into the slot on my Ultraskim, and they do all try to pile in there if any food gets sucked in. It was worth every penny TBH.

  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    well i will admit that after finally fitting my old nexus up to my skimmer the other month i found that the basket was reducing flow so i took it out,now i used the pipe and fittings i had laying about so it goes 6"-3" valterra - 2" pipe then back to 4" pipe to nexus through a 2"-4" rubber fitting,well the bottom of my wide mouth my skimmer mouth is literally 1 1/2" below water so it does just skim,anyway left the basket out had no trouble with koi chasing food as i have an airstone that diverts food away from it,or so i thought,until 2 weeks ago when i had just dosed with lernex due to finding some costia,about an hour later i heard dripping outside,pond was overflowing and found nexus empty,looks into skimmer and theres a koi about 40cm flapping on its side in skimmer mouth,pushed it back into pond,then noticed another koi head first stuck in the valterra valve,had to really pull it out but it seemed ok so sprayed some antibac on it and put back in pond,but water still wasnt going down,when i took all piping apart i found a small shusui the wife bought 2 weeks ago stuck in the 2" pipe dead, the other koi which was a tancho sanke we'd had for 9 year we called pan as it never seemed to grow until going in new pond and it shot up to about 30cm died 2 days ago,looked like an internal infection as it was a bit swollen but also its dorsal fin was damaged,my lesson has been learned,the basket is back in but ive cut a few of the small mesh holes out in bottom for better flow,and my mate is getting me a piece of 316 stainless mesh to go just inside the skimmer mouth,putting inside as its easier and i think safer to fit than having on outside where fish could rub up against it,,,,,,andi

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  11. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    Just to be clear the skimmer that I bought is sold by many reputable koi dealers, some of which are regularly mentioned on this site. The skimmer was clearly advertised as a koi skimmer when I purchased it. If it is not suitable for keeping koi then it should have not been sold for that purpose.

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  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    Yep my certikin long throat wide mouth was and still is being sold by a few koi dealers aswel ian....andi

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  15. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    You are aware that the Olympic and Cerikin skimmers are swimming pool brands tho?

    if something is cheap then it is cheap for a reason- made for a much bigger market than the koi pond one in this case. If you speak to the people selling these products rather than order stuff on the internet then they will advise you of these things tbh.

  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    No Feline, who mentioned anything about ordering online, I spoke to reputable koi dealers, the skimmer which was picked up from the shop in person. It’s the first skimmer that I have installed, cost was never an issue, my pond is quite small in footprint so when I discussed this with the dealer he suggested a smaller skimmer which was supplied.
    If you do happen to google the products as Andy said these are being advertised as koi skimmers by koi dealers and there is nothing to suggest that they are not suitable for koi ponds but it seems that they have massive drawbacks. I take it yours is like a letterbox design. Will be making a different choice should I install a skimmer again. Feel let down by the koi trade in general for stocking these products and some big koi retailers stock them !!!

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  18. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    well mine came from here and was about £170 with the wide mouth extension,Certikin Pond Skimmer - Pond Skimmers - Absolute Koi and a quote on site "Certikin Skimmers are recognized as the best skimmers available, used widely in the Koi industry and are manufactured to a very high standard." i also know of one guy who had his pond built by a koi dealer who builds ponds had 2 of the jbr skimmers fitted but they ended up having to hack one to bits as it leaked like mad due to bad welds and they fitted the same as above in its place,as for the cheap part i wouldnt say £170 is cheap,and as for swimming pool brands and equipment,sand filters used to be the thing but then got changed to beads and now k1,UV's the same,bottom drains,most koi filters started out for swimming pools,but were adapted for koi ponds,think ive said my piece,,,,andi

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  20. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    I would rate the dealer that you mentioned as specialist, established, experienced and reputable, they both sell the skimmers that we appear to be being criticised for purchasing. I picked mine up in person from a company in Bury and also consulted with the dealer on purchase.

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  22. #13
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Andi, those skimmers were not actually adapted for koi ponds, you are buying the item exactly as it is for the pool industry.
    There was a time when BDs and skimmers for koi pond were a new thing and nothing was specifically made- people made do and adapted what was available. Therefore there are many ponds built with these bits of kit. I've seen people mod the Olympic and Certikin skimmers in all kinds of ways using DIY grills, bars, plates etc. I've not personally visited a pond where someone is running one just with the floating weir plate and no basket though

  23. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    With respect to Feline who's an expert compared to the average pond owner and knows her stuff through experience and academic qualifications, it's well documented that the average garden centre, fish store and to a lesser extent Japanese koi dealers sell stuff to newbies that is totally inappropriate to what they actually need, whether it be filters, pond equipment, food, or even fish.

    The bull***t packaging claims on these products don't help.

    The vast majority on here have learned to spot these brand affiliations or to work out when the dealer/seller is just talking crap.

    But when it comes to buying equipment that is beyond the understanding of the average pond owner, such as gravity fed equipment, individual drum specifications, and of course skimmers, the only source of advice is from the companies selling them, so you simply cannot blame the purchaser for lack of research even if they had bought it online.

    If this thread didn't exist and the OP instead asked "does anyone have an Olympic xyz skimmer and are they any good" I doubt very much there would have been scores of responses saying you have to modify it to stop it killing your koi, because the majority of owners are probably equally unaware.

    In this instance the blame must lie with either the manufacturer, or the dealers who are selling pool skimmers as koi pond skimmers without having properly tested them or without warning of the risks.

    The OP or anybody else operating a product purchased from a specialist that is being advertised to carry out a certain job in a certain environment cannot be blamed when things go wrong.

    If the fuel pump says unleaded but diesel comes out, is it your fault for not smelling it first?


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  25. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    i dont have the weir plate in as theres only 1 1/2" inch of water going into it,yes leaving the basket out was a huge mistake on my part,costly lesson learned on that one,but as im fully enclosed now and on last pond i didnt need the basket as no leaves or debris other than food to go into it,i did on last pond have a smaller square in wall skimmer which i fitted a grill to but this was sat with plenty of water going into it,the skimmers from a few koi dealers do get adapted for koi ponds feline if you read the info on absolute website,they will adapt it for 3" or 4" pipe,but what i was trying to say was,you shot myself and ianb's comments down and said our skimmers were cheap and made for swimming pools,and cheap for a reason,even though i dont think £170 isnt really cheap,i'd like to know what reason,it cant be quality as they are used the whole world over with great success,i know read comments can be misinterpreted but the way yours are coming across is as if its our own fault our fish died because we bought rubbish skimmers and not ultraskims or other ones purposely designed for koi ponds,yes i wish i had left the basket in,but i love my koi and take what i thought was great care of them, if the skimmers are that rubbish and shouldnt be used why can you get them from any dealer,maybe i should just close my pond down and forget about the £6500 ive just spent on it,as im obviously not fit to look after them,,,think its time i left the site,,,,andi

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  27. #16
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I shot down your comments that these skimmers are not fit for purpose yes, because you're using them for a purpose other than the one they were designed for.

    If people designing their ponds and selecting a skimmer read this thread then I feel it's very important they choose their skimmer wisely, and don't run an unmodified swimming pool skimmer thinking it is safe for koi. So I make no apologies for drawing attention to this point, and letting people know that for a bit more cash they could get a purpose built gravity koi pond skimmer, no mods needed

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  29. #17

    Unnecessary fish loss

    That’s all very well and good but I’d suggest most people building a pond won’t be coming here as their first point of call, they’ll go to the garden centre or koi dealer hence it’s the sellers duty to point out the possible pitfalls of using something that might not be fit for purpose and may require some adaptation.
    So, upshot of that is, I agree with Andi,R’s and the OP with the caveat that what you’re saying Feline is correct also correct but it’s not really a newbies fault for not knowing that is it?
    Let’s face it, some people are impulsive and will just lap up any old crap whereas others are a little more considered.
    We can only hope that there are more of the latter that will visit this and other forums/internet resources.
    Andi, don’t leave mate, you’re one of the best contributors on here!!


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  31. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai LouiseR's Avatar
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    Agree entirely with BCC. Would only add it’s a shame people’s ‘backs are up’ on this thread (although I understand why), when all are essentially singing from the same hymn sheet i.e. certain skimmers are being marketed/sold as ostensibly suitable for use in a koi pond which, without modification, are not. This forum can educate people about the risks but, as BCC said, it’s audience is necessarily limited. As I understood it, all Ianb and Andi were suggesting was, that those marketing/selling these types of skimmer should warn consumers that, without modification, they pose a real threat to koi health/life - they should also advise how to modify the unit to make it koi safe. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Until this happens we’ll continue to read sad story after sad story here, and on other sites like Kiophen, of koi being damaged or killed by skimmers - all, as Ianb said, entirely preventable.

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  33. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Ianb's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, a certain dealer that has been previously mentioned, advises on his website that the Olympic skimmer (without any modification) should be fitted to a suitable filter such as an easy pod, which is a specialist koi filter.
    The origins of the skimmer are not mentioned, neither is it mentioned that they were originally designed for pools. There must be thousands of these skimmers fitted to koi ponds putting koi in danger.
    I recently did a pond upgrade, digging I meter deeper, fitting a spindrifter and a skimmer to improve the environment for my fish. If I had thought that anything would harm the fish that I am wanting to thrive I would have chosen differently.
    I feel let down by the trade, because they are clearly being sold for the koi pond.

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