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  1. #41
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Got an example Trace?
    Of course ... I've defo been over this before a few times ... maybe not on this forum ... or do you mean an example of hifi vs proper accurate audio gear LOL ... ... give me a few mins ...

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  3. #42
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-pond-equ...ice-media.html

    It's up to you how important price and brand name is ...

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Of course ... I've defo been over this before a few times ... maybe not on this forum ... or do you mean an example of hifi vs proper accurate audio gear LOL ... ... give me a few mins ...
    media please, you'll have to forgive me Im new here

    Thanks

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  7. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-pond-equ...ice-media.html

    It's up to you how important price and brand name is ...
    Thanks Trace

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  9. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    crystal bio and pumice breaks down with too much water over it,and puts minute glass particles in water which irritate kois gills,i know ive had it,bag of CB at top of garden i wont use again,probably about 25ltr if anyone wants it,,,,andi

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  11. #46
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Thanks Trace
    I see you eventually read the relevant post .. I notice the university study that was linked to has been removed (no surprise there) LOL ...

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  13. #47
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    crystal bio and pumice breaks down with too much water over it,and puts minute glass particles in water which irritate kois gills,i know ive had it,bag of CB at top of garden i wont use again,probably about 25ltr if anyone wants it,,,,andi
    It's all the same stuff basically ... I had to laugh when I saw one of the crystal bio market points ... "easily shaped" ...

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  15. #48
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Am I looking at the correct stuff,as surely the Grow stones are too small for a shower as they would fall through the media grid.
    John

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  17. #49
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    just get the proper stuff,the sakura media from kitsu koi is good value and its proven as they have it in all their showers,as said i had some CB in mine and it deteriated,also had some growstones and yes they fell through the grids or some did,they also fell to bits as too soft,not meant for pounding with water,probably ok in a vessel like the roto shower filter where they are just sat there submerged,dont bother trying the cheap option as it costs more when it goes wrong and you have to buy the right media,,,,andi

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  19. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    if you want the cheaper option that works,i know i ran a shower for a few years with it in and had good results then get alpha grog,£15-£20 a bag,,,,andi

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  21. #51
    What Andi says.
    Not often I’d disagree with Trace but on this I will.
    Crystal Bio would be fine(ish) in a trickle tower with very slow flow but in a shower where you’re pumping maybe 20k l/h over it, it will erode.
    That’s where the ceramic media (not all of them mind you) score.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  23. #52
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    if you want the cheaper option that works,i know i ran a shower for a few years with it in and had good results then get alpha grog,£15-£20 a bag,,,,andi
    Yes growstones were just an example of cheap sintered media they certainly work well in some instances ... for those they are too small for grog sounds like a good option ... but then again there'll be people that didn't work for too ... in the end it's just whatever works in your individual setup ... the point was don't get lost in all the marketing hype and think that only the expensive stuff works.

    Gotta love buzzwords: just repackage some growstones call it "Platinum Crystal Diamond Medi-Bio Plus", give it an obscenely expensive price tag and claim it aids growth ...

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  25. #53
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Used grog for years and in my main shower at the moment,but I need something in my small grow on shower and undecided on grog or what Mike got from Bacteria home,seems a good price.
    John

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  27. #54
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    LOL ... wait a minute ... the University of Arizona did claim that tilapia did show better growth in the test vats filtered with growstones in their test results.

    The link to the results is dead now but I remember emailing the scientist running the study at the uni and she confirmed it was straight up ...

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  29. #55
    Couple of years ago I spoke directly with the people responsible for growstones and they were dead against using them for filtration due to the fact they dissolve.
    That’s from the horses mouth.


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  31. #56
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    just get the proper stuff,the sakura media from kitsu koi is good value and its proven as they have it in all their showers,as said i had some CB in mine and it deteriated,also had some growstones and yes they fell through the grids or some did,they also fell to bits as too soft,not meant for pounding with water,probably ok in a vessel like the roto shower filter where they are just sat there submerged,dont bother trying the cheap option as it costs more when it goes wrong and you have to buy the right media,,,,andi
    Just as well go the full trip and buy the Bio Home stuff then

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  33. #57
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    yes learn from our expensive mistakes,like the calictus bead filter i have sat at top of garden,that was a £200 mistake,the pressure filter that was a £150 mistake many years ago,the bag of CB was a £50 mistake,building a pond in the first place was an OMFG WHAT HAVE I DONE lol,,,,,andi

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  35. #58
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    yes learn from our expensive mistakes,like the calictus bead filter i have sat at top of garden,that was a £200 mistake,the pressure filter that was a £150 mistake many years ago,the bag of CB was a £50 mistake,building a pond in the first place was an OMFG WHAT HAVE I DONE lol,,,,,andi
    Why do we do these things

    When we bought Sheba my oldest Dobe, Mrs said what have we done after she destroyed a few things as a pup, then a few yrs later I bought Maxy pretty much behind her back she hit the roof my excuse was that they'd look after each other and be company for each, its worked they're perfect together and have had two litters of wonderful pups, Mrs wouldn't be without either now either, both of them by me right now, been in the kennel most of the day, until I come home anyway. Mrs been cleaning lol

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  37. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Just as well go the full trip and buy the Bio Home stuff then
    Errr..don’t do that.
    Bacteria House Media is the premier league stuff, it has magical powers.
    Unless there’s more than one (good) Geordie salesman using it, steer well clear.
    The stuff from QK and Sakura are two of the better knock offs.


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  39. #60
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Couple of years ago I spoke directly with the people responsible for growstones and they were dead against using them for filtration due to the fact they dissolve.
    That’s from the horses mouth.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Who was that you spoke to? .... a few years ago when this first came up I wrote to Growstones R&D dept. and gave them a really detailed set of questions about use in filtration and got a really detailed answer back ... there wasn't a hint of what your saying in any of the answers. Here's a quick direct relevant quote from the reply....

    "Either the GS-1 Hydro Stones which are best or the GS-2 Mix This can also work. The reason why Growstones work well as a bio-filter is due to its extremely large surface area and that property is present across all Growstones due to its highly porous and open pore structure. It is also very lightweight.

    Growstones do not tend to break down under what would be a normal flow rate and especially in bio-filtration where flow of water is the only disturbance to the stones.

    There could be some breakage due to physical manipulation or from strong constant flow of water in which stones are constantly colliding and rubbing against each other.

    In this worst case scenario, the fines released from the stones are amorphous silica, not crystalline, and very unlikely to harm fish in any way."



    That's a written reply from the head of the horses R&D dept.

    I think what's happened here is similar to what happened to me when I was trying to research the best method of bonding "Greenseal" EPDM to glass for the flush fitting method of installing a viewing window ... the first time I phoned Sealeco (who make Greenseal) I managed to get straight through to their tech. dept. who were extremely helpful and went into great detail about the process of manufacturing etc. knew it was used extensively as a pond liner etc. and I had a great talk with them about the best fish safe way of getting the strongest bond between their EPDM and glass.

    Anyway a few weeks later I realised I had lost all the notes I had taken and phoned back only to get the marketing team this time who would under no circumstances put me through to the tech. guys and even when I'd been passed to the head of marketing none of them would admit to any knowledge of it ever being used as a pond liner ... it was repeated to me over and over that it was a roofing product and if anybody was using it as a pond liner then it was being used in a way it wasn't designed to be. It got even funnier when they would admit to a company called "Pond Liners UK" (Aqualinersdirect) who only sell pond liner's (and where I got mine) being one of their biggest UK customers but claimed to have no knowledge of what Pond Liners actually did with their EPDM ...

    Point being you'll get loads of folk saying all different things about just about any product but I usually try to get info (usually in writing as their more likely to be accurate then) from the tech. guys who I've always found to be more than willing to go out of their way to help (if you can get through to them) ...

    Some love growstones ... some hate them, I've seen some have had great success and swear by them, some don't. It would appear the problem they have is with high flow rates.

    That's the first I've heard any mention of them "dissolving" ... does that mean it was said that if you put them in water they would eventually dissolve?

 

 
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