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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Water flow through diy shower

    As most of you know I made a 3 tier shower last year.
    As I find them quite ugly by the side of the pond I have thought of putting it inside my garage next to the drum and bio.
    Problem is I have no room on the back wall so I thought of extending the garage 3ft towards the pond so the end of the garage would be about 3ft from the pond so I would still be able to access and run a 4ins pipe from the shower through the garage wall to the pond.
    The shower would need to be on scaffolding,but would I be best to have a four Ins pipe from the bottom of the bottom shower to a rgt bend then straight through the wall to the pond?
    I will be using a 18000 variable pump with a bit of head loss would the 4ins pipe cope with the flow?
    I would need to have the pipe on a slight incline to the pond but I am concerned if the pipe is big enough as I don't want any standing water in the bottom tray.
    I think Feline has a similar system going.


    John

  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Anyone know if the 4ins pipe will be enough?
    John

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    John I think you've forgotten to mention something in your first post -

    That you'll have it build long before I finish my QT !!!!

    I can't believe it there must at least 6 or 7 different threads on here at the moment that are making comments about my QT and the lack of progress

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Ok Frim you win,iwill leave you alone if I can get an answer to my question whether the 4ins pipe will be big enough.
    John

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  8. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Ok Frim you win,iwill leave you alone if I can get an answer to my question whether the 4ins pipe will be big enough.
    Sorry John I wasn't having a go at you just couldn't believe it was being mentioned on so many threads and some of which I wasn't even posting on

    At least your thread isn't the odd one out now is it?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    If you are pump feeding your DIY shower and then using gravity to fed from it back into the pond why are you intending to have a slight incline on the return pipework? Won't that restrict the flow slightly?

    What are your options for fittings and pipework size wise going up from 4"? Assuming you only want to have one return but if you can run 2 returns then why not run it in 4" and if it doesn't flow right either add another return and maybe use a smaller pipe size to handle the excess to keep the costs down using 2" or 3"?

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  12. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Just done a quick comparison of cross sectional areas (CSA) of some different pipe sizes -

    6" = 28.26" CSA
    5" = 19.63" CSA
    4" = 12.56" CSA
    3" = 7.07" CSA
    2" = 3.14" CSA

    Obviously only using specific figures and not actual internal diameters of each pipe as they may be called X" but their true internal diameter as we know may differ slightly from types and makes of pipe.

    Hope this helps in some way.

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  14. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Thanks Frim,sorry I meant decline not incline back to pond.
    Basically pump fed with 18000 ltr variable through shower 4ins tank connecter on bottom 4ins bend through wall to pond.
    Don't want any water settling in the bottom of the shower,mind you there is a grid suspending the media,water going straight out.
    Sorry Frim not with you on your last post.
    John

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  16. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    That makes more sense John lol

    Don't want water sitting in the pipe work.

    The last post was just trying to give you a pipe size comparison for the return to the pond in case your current 4" needs altering or an additional return added if required that was all. Does it make sense now?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    At the moment the shower sits on the edge of the pond and a weir type return straight to pond.
    I want to move the whole shower inside my garage and make a 4ins pipe return about 3 to 4ft from the pond if you get me Frim.
    John

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Yes I understand what you are trying to do John.

    Somewhere on here is a chart showing the maximum flow rates for various sizes of pipes. Not sure if it gives figures for pump fed flows, gravity fed flows or both as that would be what you need to get an answer. Unfortunately I can't remember if it was made into a sticky thread or post to make it easily to find.

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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    how much room will you have above the shower,is there enough for another tier,if so i would put another empty tier on bottom and put a 4" tank connector in middle underneath then a bend then your pipe back to pond,the thing you have to think about with gravity returns is the pressure of water in the pond not letting shower water out quick enough,so you could run pipe above height of pond then a bend to drop water back in,this also saves cutting holes in pond wall lol,,,andi

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    That is the plan Andi,I have another tank as the cut outs will be different and as you say a tank connecter in the bottom then bend straight to pond and over the top splash return,but will the water exit fast enough?
    There wont be much room above for 4 tiers.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    are your spraybars over top or inlet thru side of top tier,if over top you could gain space by going thru side,you dont need any room above when in place as you wont be removing again,well not often anyway,you could always put the outlet to pond right at bottom on side of lowest tier if space is that tight,i know momotaro did change some of their showers to have bottom tier with smaller exit to actually have some media constantly submerged,i though of doing something you with mine as roof space at side of pond has meant i can only use 3 of my 4 tiers,,,,andi

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    you could as your building the garage extension make the roof higher on that part to accomodate a 4th tier,and if you sit shower so widest side is facing pond put 2 x 4" returns in,this would definately handle whatever you throw at it,,,andi

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  30. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    John, if you are using a 18000 variable speed pump and it is only running the DIY shower why don't you use a 4" return and then just turn the speed down a bit if it doesn't flow out of the shower quickly enough? Then what you can do is going by how much you have to turn the pump down make a decision as to whether you need a second return? May save you fitting extra pipes etc and drilling extra holes through the garage wall? Or is that something you have already thought about and ruled out?

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    hes extending garage to accommodate shower frim so holes will be probably done as they go leaving bricks or whatever out,andi

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  34. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Was just thinking about saving money for him Andi but see your point

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Thanks for your replies much appreciated.
    Andi,spray bar is over the top but thinking of going internal for this.
    Could have outlet on the bottom side as the media is raised on a grid so saving space.
    Good point raising the garage roof.
    As I have a large window on the end of the garage I was planning on moving it away from where the shower would be leaving more room for the shower to the apex of the roof.
    Was planning to core drill the hole once everything was up then I can see exactly where I want the shower,raise the pump off the ground to save on height lose then move drum and bio forward,sounds easy but a lot of work and planning.
    Think really as Frim says as I have a variable pump just turn it down a bit if too fast and go for one 4ins pipe.
    Suppose I could do a dummy run,4ins hole in the bottom of a container and have it over the bio same height as the shower to pump would be and see how it exits.
    John

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  38. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Nice one John.

    Just remember the a 4" hole straight out of the side or bottom of the shower will flow a bit more than it will with pipes and bends on

    Hope I'm not trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs BTW lol

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