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  1. #1

    Filtreau 20 or HF30

    Hi.. ive got 16 000l pond with 2xBottom drains
    SC and filter brushes followed by a moving bio and a pump chamber.
    Using a Eco touch pump (1.1kw variable speed)
    I am interested in a filtreau 20. will this work? or should i get the HF 30 which can handle 30 000l per hour.
    Also... how difficult is this to DIY?
    what level must the Drum sit at? This is a gravity fed system
    thanks



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai sammy66's Avatar
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    hi, go bigger than you need . to save in the long run.

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  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I think it is realistic to run 15,000ltrs through a Filtreau20/ARM 20 which gives yo a turnover in little over an hour so I think the smaller filter would be OK - You need to consider what you are attaching the unit to as well. If you will be attaching a pump directly to the drum and say pumping up to a shower or multibay then you could probably be able to pump even more. On the other hand if you have a long gravity run to a bio chamber you could struggle to exceed 10,000ltrs.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  6. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    I think it is realistic to run 15,000ltrs through a Filtreau20/ARM 20 which gives yo a turnover in little over an hour so I think the smaller filter would be OK - You need to consider what you are attaching the unit to as well. If you will be attaching a pump directly to the drum and say pumping up to a shower or multibay then you could probably be able to pump even more. On the other hand if you have a long gravity run to a bio chamber you could struggle to exceed 10,000ltrs.
    Filtreau Easy Drum / AEM Easy Drum can be ordered with high flow SST screen - which increases the flow capacity up to 30.000 L/h in gravity and up to 25.000 L/h for pump fed.

    You should setup your system to reach optimal desired flow (1x per hour turnover) at say 75% of your filter max flow capacity - both for your pump and drum - this substantially increases life span and reduces operating costs compared with running it at max flows.

    Agreee also with going bigger if you can - alternatively look into system redundancy - one bigger drum if it fails it will cut off all your filtration - alternative being to go for two Filtreau Easy Drums and two separate lines - still at unbeatanble cost as bigger drum with 50.000 L/h flow capacity is for sure more expensive than 2.000 Euro you will spend on two Filtreau Easy Drums - 1.000 Euro each. Setup with two smaller drums on two indeoendent lines will give you the safety from failure as well as allows to shut down one of the two lines completely for maintenance or just lower flow for winter.

    Just food for thought ...
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  8. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milaz;28465e2
    Filtreau Easy Drum / AEM Easy Drum can be ordered with high flow SST screen - which increases the flow capacity up to 30.000 L/h in gravity and up to 25.000 L/h for pump fed.
    ...
    If you are attaching it gravity fed and attached to a bio chamber through it's one 4" output there is no way you could draw 30000lt through it no matter what screen was installed. I found with my own setup that trying to run more than 15k ltrs through a single 4" caused the water level in the bio chamber to drop very significantly reducing the amount of media you could have. 10 k ltrs /h per 4" pipe is much more optimal in terms of head loss. Can these drums be easily configured to have 2x 4" outputs?

    I agree with you on the advantage of redundancy in the system but 2 drums on a16k pond might possibly be a little ott
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  10. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    If you are attaching it gravity fed and attached to a bio chamber through it's one 4" output there is no way you could draw 30000lt through it no matter what screen was installed. I found with my own setup that trying to run more than 15k ltrs through a single 4" caused the water level in the bio chamber to drop very significantly reducing the amount of media you could have. 10 k ltrs /h per 4" pipe is much more optimal in terms of head loss. Can these drums be easily configured to have 2x 4" outputs?

    I agree with you on the advantage of redundancy in the system but 2 drums on a16k pond might possibly be a little ott
    Very good points made Pip - cannot comment on gravity setup as I am pumped - but I know how big of a difference the high flow screen has made in my setup (it can be also retrofitted - cost of new high flow screen is about 100 Eur) - I have one AEM Easy Drum since 2016 with regular SST screen and as I was hitting its max limit at 17-20.000 L/h on our 24.000 L pond, I added second Filtreau Easy Drum last fall, separated skimmer line from bottom drain - each having its own drum now - ordered Filtreau with high flow SST screen and it allows noticeably higher flow - so I would say the 25% higher flow claim from manufacturer is true - so probably 20.000L/h can be realistic. In my case I run bottom drain line with the new high flow drum all year long at 15.000 L/h and skimmer line shut for winter - restarting in Spring at 15.000 L/h with original drum - thus ballancing out operating hours (wear and tear) after next three years for both drums. I have single 110 mm gravity return to the pond from filters - but filter shed elevated about 1.5 m above pond water level 15m away from the pond - so the combined 30.000L/h flows back very well.
    Last edited by milaz; 18-01-2019 at 09:53 AM.
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

  11. #7
    Thanks for the replies guys... Mine is gravity fed. Sure the 20 000l will work well , but might go the the HF30 as i might extend pond in the future
    Could i please request some pictures of the drum after its been installed?
    Also , what level does this drum sit at if gravity fed?

    thanks again

  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milaz View Post
    Very good points made Pip - cannot comment on gravity setup as I am pumped - but I know how big of a difference the high flow screen has made in my setup (it can be also retrofitted - cost of new high flow screen is about 100 Eur) - I have one AEM Easy Drum since 2016 with regular SST screen and as I was hitting its max limit at 17-20.000 L/h on our 24.000 L pond, I added second Filtreau Easy Drum last fall, separated skimmer line from bottom drain - each having its own drum now - ordered Filtreau with high flow SST screen and it allows noticeably higher flow - so I would say the 25% higher flow claim from manufacturer is true - so probably 20.000L/h can be realistic. In my case I run bottom drain line with the new high flow drum all year long at 15.000 L/h and skimmer line shut for winter - restarting in Spring at 15.000 L/h with original drum - thus ballancing out operating hours (wear and tear) after next three years for both drums. I have single 110 mm gravity return to the pond from filters - but filter shed elevated about 1.5 m above pond water level 15m away from the pond - so the combined 30.000L/h flows back very well.
    Interesting what you are saying about the screen - I cant get my head round why a high flow screen helps that much. I can see that it would increase the interval between cleans quite a bit but if you are feeding a bio filter through one 4" pipe I just cant see how that isn't the controlling factor on flow up at > 15kl/h.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  14. #9
    On my set up - gravity fed drum to long bio chamber via gravity - I have the exact same issues as Pip describes. I have to dial down my 18k variable pump to around 60% to keep the water level in the bio at an optimal level.

    mind you, it’s cheaper to run and prolongs retention time in the bio so I’m not complaining

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  16. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    Interesting what you are saying about the screen - I cant get my head round why a high flow screen helps that much. I can see that it would increase the interval between cleans quite a bit but if you are feeding a bio filter through one 4" pipe I just cant see how that isn't the controlling factor on flow up at > 15kl/h.
    This seems to be the difference between gravity setup - with single 110 mm pipe feeding your drum this is the bottle neck - in my pumped setup the bottle neck was flow capacity of the drum itself - as when fed with two pumps at 20.000 L/h it was cleaning too frequently with std. SST screen (every 10 mins or so) - so in pumped setup the high flow SST screen removes the bottle neck and allows higher flow into the filters.
    Last edited by milaz; 18-01-2019 at 06:35 PM.
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  18. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milaz View Post
    This seems to be the difference between gravity setup - with single 110 mm pipe feeding your drum this is the bottle neck.
    There would be 2x 4" connections into the drum - Its the flow from the drum to a gravity fed bio chamber that's the potential bottle neck. Watching a You tube video interview with the manufacturers though they seem quite open to the idea of people adding additional connections so that would sort the issue.

    You being pump fed - I can now see why the high flow screen would help and why the single 4" output isn't such an issue for you.

    Makes sense Thanks
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  20. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Just spotted another advantage of the 20 over the 30 - I don't think that the 30 comes with an amalgum UV. Add a second 4" onto the 20 and it looks a much better deal.

    Also regarding the high flow screen if the high flow screen is made with thinner wire (which would be the easiest way to achieve a higher flow) it may be more fragile and less durable than the standard screen perhaps??
    Last edited by pip895; 19-01-2019 at 06:18 PM.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai JimJones's Avatar
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    I would like to run one of these from my 4 inch gravity ed bottom drain and also from my 3 inch gavity fed skimmer.

    Would i be able to run both sat 14k main and 12 k on skimmer

    thanks

    Jim

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  24. #14
    You mean a drum on each or both feeding one drum?

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  26. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai JimJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toffee View Post
    You mean a drum on each or both feeding one drum?

    both

    feeds from the skimmer at say 15 k and the main at 13 k

    Jim

  27. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Don't forget to vary the required rate by the stocking level you have. The rate of waste is simply the rate of waste appearing at in the drum - that's a result of stocking and the flow rate. More stocking the more crap arrives.

    Unfortunately drum manufacturers don't state the amount of mess they can clear before needing a flush - just the clean flow rate. As the waste increases in the drum the potential flow rate drops as the clean drum area drops.

    To low and the drum is flushing all the time. Also - as some have found with drums, the pond water level rises and falls. If the drum water flow rate starves the filter then the pump increases the height of the pond and if there's an overflow, the pond overflows. A drum wash occurs and the water surges to refill the filter causing the water level in the pond to drop. The cycle repeats as the waste arrives. Setting the sensor so less water drop is performed simply means more washes per hour and more water consumption.

    The only thing I would suggest is over specifying the drum - in physical drum area. A drum with high-flow simply allows more water and smaller particles through, but there's only about 10 micron between them. This over sized drum results in less flushing and less other issues like water levels rapidly changing. It's cheaper on the water too.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

  28. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    Just spotted another advantage of the 20 over the 30 - I don't think that the 30 comes with an amalgum UV. Add a second 4" onto the 20 and it looks a much better deal.

    Also regarding the high flow screen if the high flow screen is made with thinner wire (which would be the easiest way to achieve a higher flow) it may be more fragile and less durable than the standard screen perhaps??
    My apologies for being out of this forum for some time Pip - have not seen your question on high flow screen - in fact the SST filter mesh screen is exactly the same in both cases - wire diameter and 70 microns holes sizes - the difference is only in the actual sizes of the cutouts in the mesh support - high flow has larger cutouts in its support - resulting in greater SST mesh active surface available for water to pass through it - hence higher flow possible....
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  30. #18
    Member Rank = Nisai ganroob's Avatar
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    Thanks for that explanation Milaz.

    Like Pip, I too thought the HI flow mesh was made from thinner wires, resulting in more holes of the same size.

    In practice, it's just bigger mesh panels between the supporting plastic ?

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  32. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ganroob View Post
    Thanks for that explanation Milaz.

    Like Pip, I too thought the HI flow mesh was made from thinner wires, resulting in more holes of the same size.

    In practice, it's just bigger mesh panels between the supporting plastic ?
    Exactly - the mesh is single piece over entire surface of the drum - suported by sheet of material with regular cutouts in it so in these places can water pass trough. So high flow version uses the very same mesh just with bigger cutout holes in its supporting material - so higher flow / more water can pass throuht it at the same time.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  34. #20
    Member Rank = Nisai ganroob's Avatar
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    So why even bother with the normal / LO flow mesh , are new drums now automatically fitted with HI flow mesh when produced ?

 

 
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