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  1. #1
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    starting a new filter

    Hi, I am sure this has been asked before, but I cannot find it.
    I have just set up a shower filter for 500L of water in a 1000 L IBC. There is also a moving bed made from a 15L plastic bottle in the tank driven by air line.
    All filter media is new. Foams /Alpha grog/ Biohome Ultimate, so there is no bacteria to do work on cleaning the water other than physically removing solids.

    What is the best way to boost/speed up getting the shower active?

    100 x 1-2" koi fry in the water since Wednesday.

    Added salt to 3% and now doing part water changes, to reduce salt and reduce any ammonia, which has today just shown colour change from bright yellow yesterday to darker yellow today indicating its moving toward green.

    Thanks Steve.



  2. #2
    No great expert on this but you'll struggle to mature the filter in these lower temperatures.
    Some I only recently set up my new moving bed (approx 1 month ago) and used weekly filter start supplements for 3 weeks. Now reading no ammonia/nitrite but I will monitor carefully in spring when I start feeding more in case of spikes.

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  4. #3
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    I do intend to heat the tank. I have a heater placed already but yet to switch on. I have been reducing salt levels, my shower filter is running and I have used a filter boost bacteria. My water temp is 12 and I intend to raise that slowly to 22-24. I didnít want to shock the fish, they have been at ambient temperature, so thought add heat little by little. I do not expect a moving bed to mature quick, I have read they can take months, but was hoping the baci shower would set up quicker.

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  6. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
    I do intend to heat the tank. I have a heater placed already but yet to switch on. I have been reducing salt levels, my shower filter is running and I have used a filter boost bacteria. My water temp is 12 and I intend to raise that slowly to 22-24. I didn’t want to shock the fish, they have been at ambient temperature, so thought add heat little by little. I do not expect a moving bed to mature quick, I have read they can take months, but was hoping the baci shower would set up quicker.
    as said above you need heat. bring it up slowly. and keep water changing . to bring water parameters in check. bring heat up slowly. I have my qt grow on at 22c temp. all the best fred

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  8. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    As said above mate,keep adding filter boost and not too much food raising the temp gradually.
    Keep an close eye on ph and kh to avoid a ph crash which can happen very easily in grow ons.
    Good luck and keep in touch with your progress.
    John

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  10. #6
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    Thanks John
    Re filter boost, I bought a product called pond blast, it says it canít be overdosed and can treat upto 30,000L pond. So for my 500L tank I just dropped in a dollop as strangely there are no measures or qty markings on the tub.
    And re how much food. This is difficult to assess, I am hoping I am feeding correct.
    With 131 x 1-2Ē fry I feed a pinch of the 1mm granualar food the breeder supplied a few times a day. A pinch I measured at 1/4 teaspoon. About 3/4 of the 131 come for it and clear it up in about 5 mins. If some is left itís gone when I look a bit later.
    Itís been 7 days since they arrived, no casualties yet. I tested the water before I put the fish in and did a test 3 days ago and I will test today.
    Iíll post the figures later.
    Thanks.

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  12. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Sounds good Dudly,can i ask where you got them?
    I have done the same a few times but not this winter as i have a few bigger ones growing on in the tank.
    Would get the temp up to 18 at least and feed little and often if poss,not a big load in one go sounds like you are doing right.
    This is the topic i enjoy talking about so keep in touch.
    John

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  14. #8
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Sounds good Dudly,can i ask where you got them?
    I have done the same a few times but not this winter as i have a few bigger ones growing on in the tank.
    Would get the temp up to 18 at least and feed little and often if poss,not a big load in one go sounds like you are doing right.
    This is the topic i enjoy talking about so keep in touch.
    Hi John
    New Forrest Koi was my supplier.
    I shall start heat tomorrow.

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  16. #9
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    I don't know if this looks right or if I should be doing different. But I thought I should keep a record of the water quality from day 1 so I bought a Pondlab test kit.

    My grow tank is 1000L but only filled to 500L to accommodate my 131 x 1-2" fry. Water temp at 12 degrees. Added salt to 3% Tank is inside in ventilated room with bacteria shower and air stones.

    I did water tests before adding the fish of the tap water that filled the tank and they read as follows.
    29/10/18 am pH, 7-8: KH, 10: and GH, 15
    29/10/18 pm fish added.
    02/11/18 pH, 8: NH3, 0.5: NO2, 0.25: NO3, 1: KH, 10: GH, 15
    Daily I removed 100L and replaced 100L fresh of de-chlorinated water to reduce salt levels.
    04/11/18 added Pond filter boost bacteria.
    06/11/18 am pH, 8: NH3, 0.5: NO2, 0.25: NO3, 1: KH, 9: GH, 14
    06/11/18 pm did a big water change removed 150L and topped up with 200L
    07/11/18 am pH, 8: NH3, 0.1: NO2, 0.1: NO3, 2: KH, 9: GH, 15
    07/11/18 pm Now increased water volume to 600L
    My intention is to increase water volume to 800L, my thinking being the more volume the more chemically stable.
    Also to add heat daily from tomorrow gradually bringing it up to 22 degrees in a couple of weeks if filter is established and water condition allows.

    Can/should I do anything else with a new set up?
    Last edited by Dudley; Yesterday at 03:34 PM.

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  18. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    New forest koi have some nice fish though i have never bought any there,insulate well to keep the bills down and you will be ok though they can grow fast.
    They love mussels,go to Asda and in the frozen isle they do a big bag for less than £3,you can defrost as you need and crumble them in your fingers.
    John

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  20. #11
    Looking good Dudley, keep us updated. I want to do this myself at a future date

    John

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  22. #12
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    I think I have a little issue, or will the problem settle down.

    First a quick refresh on my setup to save looking back on the thread.

    We are only at day 11 of this new set up so very early stages.

    1000L IBC tank with new media baci shower filter set up just over a week ago, tank only 1/2 filled to 500L with 3% salt and 131 x 1-2" koi added. Water not heated but tank is inside. water temp 12 degrees.

    100L water changes daily, until 2 days ago, from then 100L removed and 200L replaced, tank volume now at 700L.

    Also night before last room heater was put on, so no direct water heating but this has gradually increased water temperature to 17.5 degrees today.

    Today however I noticed intermittent flashing on a few, say 10 fish in number, one or two quite persistent flashing.

    Carried out another water test and found Ammonia present, but hoping my shower filter should if not already started working.

    pH 8 This has been consistent since day 1
    Ammonia 1. Ammonia level at test on 3rd day of fish being added to the tank I noted the tiniest hint of green but hardly readable from yellow so assumed ammonia was present but only faintly so logged it as a 0.5, and subsequent tests continued with 0.5 readings, and then two days ago a test showed it dropped to 0.1, It was almost a good yellow. Today however it is up again and was a light to mid green sample that I have to log as a definite 1.0
    Nitrite 0.1. Nitrite did show as about a 0.25 a few days ago but has dropped back a bit now.
    Nitrate 8. At day 3 my Nitrate tested as a 1, two days ago a 7 and today 8, so Nitrate is going up.
    KH 10. This is pretty consistent from day 1
    GH 15. Again this is pretty consistent from day 1.

    So I am worried about ammonia levels and wonder if I am correct in thinking this is the cause of the flashing. I did also wonder if increasing water temperature may aggravate any parasites. My assumption being any farmed fish bought in could carry parasites.

    Should I do a big water change to reduce ammonia? should I buy something to reduce ammonia (I have used a filter boost)? Does my Nitrate level going up indicate the filter is now starting to work so should I leave things alone for a bit?
    Last edited by Dudley; Yesterday at 03:35 PM.

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  24. #13
    Well nitrate going up shows the bacteria is doing something now. Problem is I think it possible your filters are over tasked by the amount of ammonia being produced.

    There is a video on yt of a guy with a thousand fry and he has problems because is big drum filter and bakki shower were struggling.

    I know yours are a tenth of that but it's possible your filters are not quite ready for the fry load
    Just my thoughts on the matter. Hope it helps.

    Ps a water change won't hurt, right now

    John

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    Last edited by JohnS; 09-11-2018 at 10:27 PM.

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  26. #14
    I agree with john s

    When i started my 500 gallon grow on qt.
    I had 10 x 4 inch fish. Easy pod plus 2x 100lt butts full of grog jap mat and wool.
    I added mature water from the main pond. And mature k1 media from the main pond filter.
    I still had new pond syndrome. For about 8 months.
    I was changing water daily for about
    4 months. Then gradually it was once a week.
    Then after 8 months the all lot was mature.
    You have to spike for the filters to mature. And they will flash because of the increase.
    The trick is to keep it under control
    When increase don t feed. Water change. When its back down feed
    And so on. The tank has to mature as well.
    Was the 4 degree in temps jump in one day. Or over a few days.

    I think your doing a great job so far.
    Mine was jumping up to ammonia 1.0 and nitrite some times higher
    Obviously then i was doing larger water changes
    And a couple where bouncing of the walls.
    Just takes time. And patients
    Fred




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  28. #15
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply.
    8 months for it to mature 😲 This is a huge learning curve.
    My only intention was to get 10-12 nice fish for a large garden pond thatís also under construction, and rather than buy largish fish next spring thought I know, I can buy some little ones and grow them on.
    Still I am enjoying the chemistry crash course.
    Regarding water heating, it was not my intension to raise tank by 4 degrees in 24hrs, in fact I have a heater in the tank, but thought it would be safer to slowly bring room temp up, and that will have advantage of stopping any room condensation as well. It was only one of these low energy 300w infra red heaters, switched on late pm, and overnight the room was a few degrees warmer and the tank temp came up by 2 degrees, great I thought. But that day was sunny and there are patio doors at one end of the room and the suns radiant heat through the glass boosted the room temp and the tank came up another couple degrees with it. So the rise was over a 24 hr period.
    The room is well insulated, stays warm a long time after heat is removed. The tank has stabilised now at 18 degrees.
    Fish are very very active, hungry and doing well, other than this flashing by some. As I say itís not constant flashing, they flash a bit then go back to normal behaviour, then I see another flash a couple of times, then that fish goes about as normal. Then no flashing for 5 mins and then I see another two do it.
    Iíll check water chemistry again today.
    I have my grandchildren with me today, they will love to play chemist. 😃
    Last edited by Dudley; 10-11-2018 at 10:41 AM.

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  30. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi Dudley, Think you are doing right in heating the room as it combats condensation,koi dont mind the rise in temp but they dont like the opposite too fast ie cooling the temp too quickley.
    At least you arnt having a ph crash with all the kh,but the ammonia is a problem.
    As said above water changes are the way to go,the best way is to put in a tricle in out where there is fresh water going in all the time,maybe a T off a pipe to a valve to waste and constant water going in,at least the temp will remain pretty constant which is what you want.
    John

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  32. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
    Thanks for the reply.
    8 months for it to mature starting a new filter This is a huge learning curve.
    My only intention was to get 10-12 nice fish for a large garden pond thatís also under construction, and rather than buy largish fish next spring thought I know, I can buy some little ones and grow them on.
    Still I am enjoying the chemistry crash course.
    Regarding water heating, it was not my intension to raise tank by 4 degrees in 24hrs, in fact I have a heater in the tank, but thought it would be safer to slowly bring room temp up, and that will have advantage of stopping any room condensation as well. It was only one of these low energy 300w infra red heaters, switched on late pm, and overnight the room was a few degrees warmer and the tank temp came up by 2 degrees, great I thought. But that day was sunny and there are patio doors at one end of the room and the suns radiant heat through the glass boosted the room temp and the tank came up another couple degrees with it. So the rise was over a 24 hr period.
    The room is well insulated, stays warm a long time after heat is removed. The tank has stabilised now at 18 degrees.
    Fish are very very active, hungry and doing well, other than this flashing by some. As I say itís not constant flashing, they flash a bit then go back to normal behaviour, then I see another flash a couple of times, then that fish goes about as normal. Then no flashing for 5 mins and then I see another two do it.
    Iíll check water chemistry again today.
    I have my grandchildren with me today, they will love to play chemist. starting a new filter
    I meant to put a zero in the figure 0.2 instead of 2.0
    Some fish in my main pond flash still at feeding. Then stop. Theres a few say that happens.
    On my main pond. It took 2 years to mature properly.
    Its great learning about the watet chemistry. Water keepers. Not fish keepers. Haha. Your kids will love it
    My grand kids love it
    Fred

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  33. #18
    that's another thing I started this week. heater to stop condensation. I keep it 2 degrees above what I have the tank heater set to.
    as I don t have covers. I personally don t like them. I had it on all last winter. set on a timer at 4 hours on 4 hours off. and that worked for me.
    like yours. my shed and tank is well insulated

    john is spot on with the trickle in and out. I have not got this. have nt got round to it yet.

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  35. #19
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Dudley's Avatar
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    I was going to put my tank in an uninsulated barn, but my wife said, ďcanít you put it in my sewing room? I only use it to cut up material nowĒ. When I was talking Ďfish tankí I think she thought fish tank, lol. Not a 1000 L IBC and additional water butts. Lol.
    So my tank is sitting on kingspan on top of a carpeted floor, with double glazed patio windows, and Iím spoilt for choice of power points. Even have a sofa and TV in there.
    Iíll try post some pics. Not attached photos yet on the forum so got to look how to do that.

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  37. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Bet your wife got a shock when you carried the ibc in
    Sounds like heaven with the sofa in there.
    John

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