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  1. #101
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Now have a total of 27kg of mature media and 60 litres of K1 in the pond/Nexus and still nitrites are reading almost 2 mg/l.

    Yesterday I put 5 litres of mature media in the pond out of a canister filter that was being used to fishless cycle a 40 litre bucket of media. This 5 litres was converting 5 ppm ammonia into NitrAtes in just 6-8 hours.

    But still no improvement on the pond.

    UV remains off, Airflow in the Nexus has been increased back to the recommended level (as reducing it made no difference), air stone in the pond running at 20 lpm, and now back to pumping the pond volume at once an hour.

    I'm fishless cycling another 15 litres of K1 and heavily dosing it with ammonia twice a day which is being consumed rapidly (and converting nitrites to nitrates rapidly). Surely when I add this to the Nexus it must fix the problem.... Only feeding the fish 115 grammes of food a week at the moment.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    This nitrite problem is still ongoing, so here's the latest.

    After fishless cycling 15 litres of brand new K1, I removed all existing media from the Pond and Nexus and replaced it with this 15 litres.

    Within 24 hours Ammonia was zero and Nitrites went down from 2 mg/l to 1.5 mg/l. Unfortunately there was no improvement after that and nitrites stayed at 1.5 mg/l for a few days then crept back to 2 mg/l and have stayed there.

    I asked KWB for advice and they contacted a technical rep from Evolution Aqua who wanted to visit and was keen to understand the problem.

    The EA Technical Rep (Feel bad, but I've forgot his name), could not understand the problem. He said I was doing everything perfectly.

    His thoughts were possibly that most people chuck a load of Koi in their pond too soon and end up with a big, but relatively short term Ammonia/Nitrite spike that quickly resolves and things mature fine. But because I added such tiny Koi with large gaps between them and fed them sparingly with high quality low-waste (Saki-Hikari) food he felt possibly the increase in waste has been too gradual to really get things going.

    His ultimate conclusion was to either add a couple of big Koi to suddenly increase waste, or to leave the Nexus 2 to 3 Weeks between cleans and reduce the K1 to just 5 litres to reduce any chance of the bacteria going hungry and dying off.

    I have some mature K1 in a bucket going through a cycle process at the moment and I'm feeding it approximately 10ml of ammonia a day. The rep suggested emptying out all the existing K1 from the Nexus and replacing it with just 5 litres of this mature K1 and see if it fixes the problem.

    I'm currently only feeding circa 30 grams of food a day and he said 1 litre of mature K1 can process 5 grams of waste per day therefore adding just 5 litres of K1 should stop the bacteria dying off through lack of available food source (ammonia).

    Today's Pond Parameters are:
    Ammonia 0
    Nitrite 2 mg/l
    Nitrate 10 mg/l (comes out the tap at 10, so probably no nitrite conversion taking place at all).
    PH 8.2
    KH 10
    GH 15
    Phosphate 0 (This was 1 ppm last week, so don't know why its dropped, and UV is off, but filter bacteria probably need some).
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 27-09-2018 at 07:45 PM.

  3. #103
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    This nitrite problem is still ongoing, so here's the latest.

    After fishless cycling 15 litres of brand new K1, I removed all existing media from the Pond and Nexus and replaced it with this 15 litres.

    Within 24 hours Ammonia was zero and Nitrites went down from 2 mg/l to 1.5 mg/l. Unfortunately there was no improvement after that and nitrites stayed at 1.5 mg/l for a few days then crept back to 2 mg/l and have stayed there.

    I asked KWB for advice and they contacted a technical rep from Evolution Aqua who wanted to visit and was keen to understand the problem.

    The EA Technical Rep (Feel bad, but I've forgot his name), could not understand the problem. He said I was doing everything perfectly.

    His thoughts were possibly that most people chuck a load of Koi in their pond too soon and end up with a big, but relatively short term Ammonia/Nitrite spike that quickly resolves and things mature fine. But because I added such tiny Koi with large gaps between them and fed them sparingly with high quality low-waste (Saki-Hikari) food he felt possibly the increase in waste has been too gradual to really get things going.

    His ultimate conclusion was to either add a couple of big Koi to suddenly increase waste, or to leave the Nexus 2 to 3 Weeks between cleans and reduce the K1 to just 5 litres to reduce any chance of the bacteria going hungry and dying off.

    I have some mature K1 in a bucket going through a cycle process at the moment and I'm feeding it approximately 10ml of ammonia a day. The rep suggested emptying out all the existing K1 from the Nexus and replacing it with just 5 litres of this mature K1 and see if it fixes the problem.

    I'm currently only feeding circa 30 grams of food a day and he said 1 litre of mature K1 can process 5 grams of waste per day therefore adding just 5 litres of K1 should stop the bacteria dying off through lack of available food source (ammonia).

    Today's Pond Parameters are:
    Ammonia 0
    Nitrite 2 mg/l
    Nitrate 10 mg/l (comes out the tap at 10, so probably no nitrite conversion taking place at all).
    PH 8.2
    KH 10
    GH 15
    Phosphate 0 (This was 1 ppm last week, so don't know why its dropped, and UV is off, but filter bacteria probably need some).
    your filtration is only 15lt? or that is just in one small part of the filter system?

    think theres a strike it and reverse it moment at the end, as adding plastic media will do nothing to sustain the microbe population


    algage on the sides of the pond or and larger plant mater will take up the phosphate

    did you keep the all ready seeded filter media colonies alive in a separate container when replaced?
    the slow pond build thread

  4. #104
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowsaw View Post
    your filtration is only 15lt? or that is just in one small part of the filter system?

    think theres a strike it and reverse it moment at the end, as adding plastic media will do nothing to sustain the microbe population


    algage on the sides of the pond or and larger plant mater will take up the phosphate

    did you keep the all ready seeded filter media colonies alive in a separate container when replaced?
    Yep, 15 litres in total which was reduced on EA's advice. (Previously had 60 litres plus 27kg of alfagrog). And now EA are suggestion I reduce to just 5 litres as the waste load isn't great enough to sustain a biofilm across even 15 litres.

    Yes, all media is being kept mature and being fed over 5ml of ammonia a day. Even the removed "mature" media wont deal with nitrites, but after 8-10 days in buckets it then starts to consume nitrites. If I put it back in the Nexus it consumes nitrites for 24-48 hours, then stops again.

  5. #105
    This is by no means the first reports of moving bed k1 filtration essentially not actually working fully with nitrite I’ve heard. I don’t know what’s going on but I’d suggest 15 litres isn’t even close to enough. It’s so interesting that if you put it back it works for a day or two and then stops. I’d suggest whatever it is is systemic to your nexus.

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  7. #106
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    RS2000,

    I have got to think that there is something in your filtration/pond that is either killing off or starving your matured media and that only started to happen when you installed your Nexus. It may not be the Nexus itself of course but something that may have been added at the same time to connect up the new system or even some unrelated work that was done in the pond at around the same time. Some things that immediately spring to my mind are - heavy metals, wood poisoning the water, a dodgy rubber boot connection, concrete, dodgy mastic or even the pipework. Any of which are difficult to pin down. I read once that some types of plastics are not suitable for keeping drinking water but I see all sorts of cheap plastic tubs used in filtration systems.

    Or could it be that your carefully matured microbial bucket media simply isn't the same type that lives in the pond water - aargh! too many questions and not enough answers!

    Kenny

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  9. #107
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I kind of ended up taking over another thread trying to sort this so haven't fully updated everything on this thread.

    An EA technical person got in touch, he was equally confused and drew a total blank. He ended up suggesting to reduce K1 down to just 5 litres as he felt that might improve the biofilm. With nothing to lose I was about to give it a try when I noticed the 15 litres of mature media was not coping. It completely removed ammonia and reduced nitrites by half for 2 days, then nitrites spiked back up again as expected, but ammonia also started creeping up day by day suggesting even 15 litres was not enough.

    Meanwhile all the media I'd initially removed was being fishless cycled in a large bucket and consuming significant amounts of ammonia daily. I temperature and PH matched it, then put it all back into the Nexus except for 15 litres which I kept in the bucket for emergencies.

    Again, Ammonia disappeared and nitrites dropped from 2 ppm to 1 ppm in 24 hours. This situation lasted 2 days, and then nitrites crept back up to 2 ppm. Ammonia stayed at zero for around a Week and that too has now started creeping up again (0.25 ppm).

    To me this demonstrated that something is almost certainly killing the filter bacteria.

    I've now eliminated everything I can think of.... except a cheap pond liner I've used in a holding section of the pond. No algae has ever grown on this cheap liner so I wondered if maybe it was toxic. I read up on the manufacturing process and nothing really stands out as being a potential cause.

    Nonetheless, last night I bypassed the section of pond with that liner and tonight I did a partial water change on the main pond. I will monitor parameters in both the main section and the holding section over the coming days/weeks to see if the liner might be to blame.

    The 15 litres of K1 kept back in the bucket is now consuming a massive 25 ml of ammonia per day, yet I know if it goes into the nexus it will stop working after a couple of days.

  10. #108
    are you using a water purifier to remove metals and stuff ?

  11. #109
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    No, just tap water and dechlorinator.

    The water here is marginally better than where I used to live but brown algae in tanks and slow growth of fish had always been a problem. Nonetheless I've cycled many tanks and small ponds without a problem previously.
    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    are you using a water purifier to remove metals and stuff ?
    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  12. #110
    fair enough, many would say a water purifier is absolutely essential though, ive had one running this year and its been my best year to date, in all aspects, I cant say thats all down to the water purifier, its impossible to know for sure, but im convinced its played a big part.
    Gary at Gatwick koi , says on one of his videos that most peoples problems in koi keeping are down to not using a good water purifier.
    The crap thats gathered in mine over the last few months is a real eye opener.

  13. #111
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Just looked at purifiers, they seem cheap at £50 to £100. Does this price range sound right? I'm guessing cartridges might be pricey though?

    Could you link me to one you recommend?

    Only thing is, there's no way she'll let me buy one for the pond when we are stuck drinking pure limescale! I'm going to have to buy 2!

  14. #112
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
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    Yes that price range is pretty fair depending on what size canisters it has, you can get em off of eBay easily enough, I’m using the vyair 12” three canister unit on my trickle in water to the pond and it does a fantastic job, canisters are cheap as chips too (well I think they are) and they last me months!


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  15. #113
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I would look at the 20” pods or jumbo units as a minimum, not the little 10” units. They cannot remove all the chlorine at any more than the very tiniest trickle.
    Vyair do a 3 pod 20” job for under £100.

    Cartridge life depends on the amount you put through them really. I wouldnt put one on your whole house supply. In fact for just drinking water and filling the kettle a Britta jug might be a more simple option? If youre fed up of descaling the bathroom then a whole house softener unit would be the way to go, with a little bypass tap in the kitchen to drink from.

  16. #114
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Will look into these, many thanks.

    Could be 2 birds with one stone here...... My other hobby is cars, so if I wash the car through one of these I won't need to dry it after as the filtered water won't leave the water marks!

    As you will see on this page, car enthusiasts are even more anal about water quality than Koi Keepers!!!!

    Best water filter? - Detailing World

  17. #115
    Knowing what I know now I’d go for one of those ex window cleaning vessels and fill with activated carbon myself and chuck a little prefilter on the front of it, ie, make a “big blue” for half the price.


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  18. #116
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Knowing what I know now I’d go for one of those ex window cleaning vessels and fill with activated carbon myself and chuck a little prefilter on the front of it, ie, make a “big blue” for half the price.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do you mean like what this guy is using in the photo with the vessel in 2nd or 3rd post:

    Resin Filter query - Detailing World

  19. #117
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Will look into these, many thanks.

    Could be 2 birds with one stone here...... My other hobby is cars, so if I wash the car through one of these I won't need to dry it after as the filtered water won't leave the water marks!

    As you will see on this page, car enthusiasts are even more anal about water quality than Koi Keepers!!!!

    Best water filter? - Detailing World
    I thought for that you had to use ro water?? (Not leaving water marks on paintwork!)??


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  21. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Do you mean like what this guy is using in the photo with the vessel in 2nd or 3rd post:

    Resin Filter query - Detailing World

    yep, but no resin obviously

    search ebay for " DI pressure resin vessel"
    there was a thread on here a little while back which mentioned them, it appeared about 2 weeks after I'd already got mine from AK which was unfortunate lol.

  22. #119
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    yep, but no resin obviously

    search ebay for " DI pressure resin vessel"
    there was a thread on here a little while back which mentioned them, it appeared about 2 weeks after I'd already got mine from AK which was unfortunate lol.
    Thanks for the info, I'll find that old thread and get up to speed with it. I honestly thought it was going to be far more expensive than it actually appears to be.

    What do you mean by no resin? Some sites are selling the resin specifically for aquariums etc?

  23. #120
    buy empty, clean with PP
    fill with "activated carbon"
    the brown resin stuff is for window cleaning, probably not good for fish, I'll take some pics of mine at the weekend

 

 
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