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  1. #21

    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    its from jbr plastics, they make them to your own size and spec.
    its 150 cm long x 75 cm wide x 100 cm tall, they told me the plastic sheets they use to make them come in 3m lengths by 1.5 m, so this was a very economical size to make it.

    Hth
    David
    Thanks David i will give them a call

  2. #22
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai dshaw63's Avatar
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    Hi David, what made you ditch the multi bay and go for the Bio chamber as now thinking on doing the same. Currently running drum on front of 3 large bay Manor multi bay, must admit do like the look of that monster chamber. Does seem the way to go drum then bio or Combi unit, think JBR's gonna be busy

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  4. #23
    errrm a few reasons really, firstly my multibay was maxxed out with 300 litres of aerated k1 in it, and i didnt want to run the risk of finding my filters bio limit in mid summer, when im wanting to feed heavily.
    Also, although the multi bay worked well enough as an aerated k1 bio filter, it just wasn't designed for it, and so you get little problems, that hopefully you just don't get with something that is designed for purpose.
    Also both the multi bay and the draco drum can't flow enough for me anymore.

    David

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  6. #24
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Looks the business david Out with the old, in with the new. shouldnt have any issues with that Out with the old, in with the new.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Its always a work in progress

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  8. #25
    Wow mate that’s gonna be one great set up. You will love it, my QK22 and JBR bio has now been running a year and it’s the best thing I ever did change from sieve and bead. One bit of advise just make sure t
    You get the drum height correct.


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  10. #26
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
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    Photos of the progress shouldn’t be all that long in coming, just had 12hrs helping Dave fit it allOut with the old, in with the new.

    He’s still got a final few things to do to get it finished, but the drum/bio chamber are up and running now and it’s a nice rig!Out with the old, in with the new.

    I’ll let Dave fill ya’ll in thoughOut with the old, in with the new.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  12. #27
    The biggest THANK YOU ever to my great friend Matt, who helped me for 12 long hours yesterday, and i had already spent many hours planning and getting everything ready, and making sure i had everything i might need.
    Got to say it was pretty darn stressful, i had my k1 media in a big chamber with air going through it, and i added some diy ammonia , but i was really worried about the filter bugs dying off, and also really worried about ammonia and nitrite building up rapidly in a pond with its main filtration removed and quiet a few large fish.
    Fortunately with having 2 pipe runs i was able to keep one flowing which kept the shower running all day, albeit quite slowly with only one pump.
    Trouble is in a situation like this your inclined to rush about like headless chickens, and then inevitably you do things wrong and it takes you longer then to correct your mistake, than it would have taken you if you weren't rushing.

    So to cut a long story short the new drum and bio chamber are installed and i have one pipe run completed, the other pipe run from my skimmer is still as it was currently, but that should be a relatively easy job to change that over.

    The bio chamber has about 240 litres of k1 in and it looks sparse in there !

    Really happy with all the components ive used, i haven't got a single complaint about the drum or chamber or the new pump, infact im super impressed with the aqua forte dm vario pump. I had a superfish 15,000 flowing over the shower on a 1.5 inch pipe run, ive got the new aqua forte pump doing exactly the same pipe run, same length, same amount of bends etc up to the shower, but ive replaced the 1.5 inch to 2 inch pipework. The superfish 15,000 is rated at 175 watts, with the aqua forte pump set at 50 % flow, its flowing the same amount over the shower as the superfish at full belt, yet the aqua forte is using 55 watts as opposed to the superfish using 175 watts .
    If i crank up the pump to 100% flow the shower is almost a monsoon. Even at 75% flow its only using 108 watts and its comfortably flowing double the water..........awesome pumps .

    Ill get some pics up soon, tbh every things untidy and upside down right now, and as i say ive got the other pipe run still to do.

    Just shows how much more draw is on the bottom drain, ive found a load of koi teeth in the drum filter, some really quite big, i bet they had been sat in the pipe run for ages.

    David

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  14. #28
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have had a busy days work, bet it was a relief to get it running through the filters again. Looking forward to seeing the photos


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  16. #29
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
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    I’d say the biggest single struggle we had was getting the old multi bay out due to its weight/design as it got snagged on the handle on the slide valve that was partly responsible for isolating the pond!

    Tbh I didn’t do THAT much really other than provide a bit of extra muscle and a 2nd pair of eyes/ a 2nd brain to spot potential problems whilst the main install was going on. I enjoyed doing it though it was interesting and I don’t mind helping a mate if I can, especially one who’s helped me so muchOut with the old, in with the new.Out with the old, in with the new.


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  18. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by blue harbour View Post
    I’d say the biggest single struggle we had was getting the old multi bay out due to its weight/design as it got snagged on the handle on the slide valve that was partly responsible for isolating the pond!

    Tbh I didn’t do THAT much really other than provide a bit of extra muscle and a 2nd pair of eyes/ a 2nd brain to spot potential problems whilst the main install was going on. I enjoyed doing it though it was interesting and I don’t mind helping a mate if I can, especially one who’s helped me so muchOut with the old, in with the new.Out with the old, in with the new.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Second pair of eyes and hands - maybe with bottle of beer or glass of wine in the other hand? Or what was else was the treat????
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  20. #31

  21. #32
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Nice one mate. Great setup. Great video. Great fish.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  23. #33
    Great setup there David, nice and simple which I like
    Quick question, have you got both of your pumps pulling from your bio chamber, one over the shower and one directly returning to the pond or am I seeing things wrong?

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  25. #34
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion AdamKoi78's Avatar
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    Brilliant David it looks the dogs danglies. I'll have to pop down for a tour now you and Matt have done the hard work.

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  27. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Great setup there David, nice and simple which I like
    Quick question, have you got both of your pumps pulling from your bio chamber, one over the shower and one directly returning to the pond or am I seeing things wrong?
    yes 2 pumps pulling water from 2 x 2 inch outlets on the bio chamber, both currently running over the shower, that's why im running the aqua forte pump at only 60 percent flow.

    I have 2 existing through the wall pond returns that aren't being used, and im wondering wether or not to reutilise one of them, just kind of weighing up pros and cons for the for and against argument.

    David

  28. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamKoi78 View Post
    Brilliant David it looks the dogs danglies. I'll have to pop down for a tour now you and Matt have done the hard work.
    Anytime bud.

    David

  29. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    yes 2 pumps pulling water from 2 x 2 inch outlets on the bio chamber, both currently running over the shower, that's why im running the aqua forte pump at only 60 percent flow.

    I have 2 existing through the wall pond returns that aren't being used, and im wondering wether or not to reutilise one of them, just kind of weighing up pros and cons for the for and against argument.

    David
    It’ll be interesting then to see how your bio copes with that much flow though it (or more?) as I’m curious about the “dwell time” debate. I have no real opinion as I’m undecided if it actually makes a difference.
    I’m currently in a minor quandary myself to either do what you’ve done or just one run slowish feed into a bio chamber from the drum and the other over a shower super fast.


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  31. #38
    tbh, i think the dwell time is pretty good anyway, the bio chamber holds 1200 litres and so even with both pumps running, if i close off the incoming water, the water level doesn't go down that fast, admittedly one pumps only flowing at 60%, but the point is, the water is in there for some time at least.
    Ive been thinking of doing a flow test tbh, ill put my findings here when ive done it.

    David

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  33. #39
    some eye opening flow test results!.

    i have a superfish 15,000 and an aqua forte dm vario 20,000 drawing from the bio chamber, both return over the shower at 2 m height, or 1m above water level, the aqua forte pumps pipe run is all in 2 inch pressure pipe and has no other restrictions, all bends are swept bends and its a fairly short pipe run. The superfish pumps pipe run is in 1.5 inch pressure pipe and has the uv and heat pump as 2 major flow restrictions.
    I know my bio chamber holds 1,200 litres and its 100cm tall, so a 10 cm water level drop equates to a 120 litres of water pumped out, so simply time how long it pumps to drop a set level to work out flow rates.

    The superfish pump on its own is pumping just 3,700 lph

    The aquaforte pump on its own, running at 30 % is pumping 2,500 lph and using 25 watts

    the aquaforte pump on its own, running at 65% flow is pumping 6,200 lph and using 86 watts

    as above but running at 100 % flow is pumping 10,400 lph and using 200 watts

    both pumps combined total flow of 14,100 lph

    previous to my filter upgrade i was running a superfish 12,000 and a superfish 15,000, i can see now that combined they were only flowing between 8 - 9,000 lph

    Im thinking many people are actually flowing nowhere near what they think or hope they are flowing!, if your unsure what your flowing i would advise you to measure it, your filter might not be getting half the flow you would like it too.
    David

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  35. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    some eye opening flow test results!.

    i have a superfish 15,000 and an aqua forte dm vario 20,000 drawing from the bio chamber, both return over the shower at 2 m height, or 1m above water level, the aqua forte pumps pipe run is all in 2 inch pressure pipe and has no other restrictions, all bends are swept bends and its a fairly short pipe run. The superfish pumps pipe run is in 1.5 inch pressure pipe and has the uv and heat pump as 2 major flow restrictions.
    I know my bio chamber holds 1,200 litres and its 100cm tall, so a 10 cm water level drop equates to a 120 litres of water pumped out, so simply time how long it pumps to drop a set level to work out flow rates.

    The superfish pump on its own is pumping just 3,700 lph

    The aquaforte pump on its own, running at 30 % is pumping 2,500 lph and using 25 watts

    the aquaforte pump on its own, running at 65% flow is pumping 6,200 lph and using 86 watts

    as above but running at 100 % flow is pumping 10,400 lph and using 200 watts

    both pumps combined total flow of 14,100 lph

    previous to my filter upgrade i was running a superfish 12,000 and a superfish 15,000, i can see now that combined they were only flowing between 8 - 9,000 lph

    Im thinking many people are actually flowing nowhere near what they think or hope they are flowing!, if your unsure what your flowing i would advise you to measure it, your filter might not be getting half the flow you would like it too.
    David
    Thank you David for sharing your findings with us - you are making excellent point - allow me please to share also my findings - w/o trying to highjack your very inspiring thread.

    I actually had the same experience - very helpful is to look carefully at flow charts of each pump - very important - my opinion - is also proper calculation of Total Dynamic Head - in my case 3.5m - corresponding well with my real flows.

    Very good TDH calculator can be downloaded as excel file from:
    https://draftsman.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/head-calculation-sheet-v1-1.xls

    Note - each pipe diameter has optimal max. flow - can be found also in the above excel file - as trying to push water faster beyond the optimum flow speed for given pipe diameter gives only marginal flow increase while consuming substantially more energy given the steep rise in resistance - this is why variable speed pumps allow to fine tune the flow into the sweet spot of any given setup.

    I have also found AF DM Vario an excellent pump - now have two - 30.000 and 10.000 - easy control of their output is really great.

    So in my 100% pumped only setup I am running during Spring to Fall 5 separate pumped lines:
    1. Bottom pick up - AF DM Vario 30.000 on 50mm hose - really pumping max 15.000 L/h - but run it at 60% - gives about 12.000 L/h with 160W - to RDF, AF and shower combo
    2. Skimmer - Aquaking 20.000 FTP 2 - on 40 mm hose gives actually 10.000 L/h with 185W to RDF, AF and shower combo
    3. ASHP - Aquaking 20.000 FT 2 - on 40 mm hose gives about 7.000 L/h with 185W returning to pond via shower
    4. Tornado II protein skimmer - AF DM Vario 10.000 - running at 60% - flows about 5.000 L/h with 45W
    5. Denitrifying Trickle Tower combo - Heissner 5000 Eco Smart line - flowing really aboout 3.200 L/h with 40W
    6. Heat exchanger in basement - Willo 25/60 - 3.600 L/h with 45W - running only in the winter - together with #1. bottom pick up.

    So by manufacturers specs w/o reflecting on the real TDH it adds up to sky high 85.000 L/h - while I know, that in reality it is only 37.200 L/h - so less than 50% of advertised max flows combined.

    Note on electricity consumption - quite efficient pumps chosen so not that high - having own photovoltaic power station on our roof with 16.9kWp output helps - in day time our pond runs on 100% free eco electricity from Spring to Fall.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by milaz; 26-04-2018 at 11:51 PM.
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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