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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    Switching off UV Filters

    Is it worth switching off UV filters for a period and allowing the water to go green and are any members here doing this on a regular basis?

    I keep reading various articles that say green water is very good for Koi.



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSARider View Post
    Is it worth switching off UV filters for a period and allowing the water to go green and are any members here doing this on a regular basis?

    I keep reading various articles that say green water is very good for Koi.
    Some people like green water for there fish. Me personally. I run mine all year round. Reasons. My windows. Plus my drum. I don t want string algi. To block anything.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  5. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Wouldn't green water cause big pH swings?
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  6. #4
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    People are doing it- Kevin Ellis and Les Bean to name a couple. I know Les was doing it to improve the skin and colours on his fish ready for the koi show thats on this weekend. He turned his UV back on a couple of weeks ago so he could actually catch them for the show lol.

    Most of is keep koi so we can see and enjoy them. I dont enjoy looking at pea soup so wouldnt do it myself.

    Its thought that one of the reasons koi develop so much better in the mud ponds in Japan is that they can come up to the surface to feed and get sunlight when they want to, then sink down into the murky shade in the hot sunny afternoons. This helps their lustre and development of colour patterns. Running green water emulates this to a certain extent.

    My plan for next spring is to build a pergola that shades the pond for most of the day but not in the morning. Thats the closest I can get to giving them what a mud pond does.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    I’ve been reading that the nutrients help their skin too, not just the shade.

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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai dc197's Avatar
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    I think the viewing the koi against blue or green water makes them look more vibrant than when they're in gin-clear water. This effect is immediate as soon as you put in blue medicine so it is due to the contrast, and happens before any true change in their colour, which I'm sure happens more slowly.

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  12. #7
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSARider View Post
    I’ve been reading that the nutrients help their skin too, not just the shade.
    Its actually not true that mud ponds are nutrient rich- they are actually almost totally devoid of minerals. Thats why other than koi, the only thing that will grow in those regions is rice.

  13. #8
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Last edited by Feline; 23-09-2017 at 09:44 AM. Reason: added link

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  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    The thing with Koi keeping, there seems to be folk that claim opposite sides are true and each side makes definitive statements, it’s a choice on who to believe:

    Algae in koi ponds

  16. #10
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I can't see any conflicting advice there?

  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    I can see conflicting advice, you’re saying algae won’t help and the article by Mankysanke says it will.

  18. #12
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSARider View Post
    I can see conflicting advice, you’re saying algae won’t help and the article by Mankysanke says it will.
    I did not say algae won't help- I said that mud ponds do help fish look better and develop better colours.
    Mike Snaden agrees in his articles.
    I haven't seen anyone on here disagree with that concept- the only worry people seem to have is pH stability.

    What I did however say was that I am not prepared to run green water in my pond because I am selfish and I want to see my fish

  19. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    I don’t have a mud pond and I’m not based in any Japanese region that grows only rice - I’m in Essex. So what’s the point in saying this? In an case, the point was that the algae supply nutrients - not mud. My question was quite simple, does switching off the UV clarifiers help the fish, I’ve read articles that say the nutrients from the algae help. I didn’t ask your personal opinion on whether you’re selfish or not.

  20. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I can see the sunlight reduction being positive particularly in high summer - not sure I buy the nutrient argument though. In terms of algae ingestion pond keepers that keep there walls totally free of green fuzz would be at a distinct disadvantage to ones with a blanket weed problem - never heard that blanket weed was good for your fish??
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  21. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    I can see the sunlight reduction being positive particularly in high summer - not sure I buy the nutrient argument though. In terms of algae ingestion pond keepers that keep there walls totally free of green fuzz would be at a distinct disadvantage to ones with a blanket weed problem - never heard that blanket weed was good for your fish??
    As I understand the argument being made is that Koi Keepers spend a lot of money on food with additions of Spirulina, etc and this is a natural source of the same type of nutrients. This is the theory that Mankysanke puts forward here:

    Algae in koi ponds

  22. #16
    I'm not sure why you think my article is in disagreement with Mike. I have the greatest respect for his wide experience in koi breeding and conditions in Japanese mud ponds. I avidly read his articles and attend as many of his talks as I can. His ideas have shaped much of my own thinking about koi growth and development and I sometimes quote from him. I come from a technical background so, where I can, I provide the scientific reasoning to back up the ideas, theories or experience that Mike and similarly respected people hold about their particular areas of expertise.

    As for koi keepers growing spirulina in a koi pond; in my article I don’t say that a pond keeper can grow spirulina instead of buying koi food with spirulina in it; in fact I say the opposite:


    “Spirulina’s main carotenoid ingredient is zeaxanthin which, when eaten, is converted by fish into astaxanthin, the red pigment needed for vibrant red colours. Spirulina is easily cultivated where the water chemistry suits it but is very unlikely to be able to flourish in a koi pond because it needs a high pH and very high levels of carbonate or bicarbonate in the water.”

    What I do say is that common types of algae which can grow in koi ponds also contain significant amounts of astaxanthin.

    “Two common species of algae that grow naturally in koi ponds and which contain significant amounts of the astaxanthin pigment are chlorella vulgaris and haematococcus pluvialis which both are forms of planktonic (green water) algae.”

    The logical conclusion to this is that they provide an additional source of that nutrient in the same way that eating fruit will supplement the vitamin intake you obtain from your diet but not replace a healthy diet.

    This is what I frequently say about the subject of green water to students on my water quality course to sum up what they will have read about green water in much greater detail in the course module.

    “Many koi breeders in the UK breed koi in green water for the benefits they say it brings to skin quality and colour development. Japanese mud ponds don’t have UV lamps to prevent the water turning green so I’ll go with the experts and trust that their business is to know what’s best for koi.

    Despite the benefits there are some points that koi keepers should bear in mind. Green water will prevent observing the fish meaning that injuries or medical problems may be difficult to detect. There also may be pH variations due to photosynthesis or there may be excess carbon dioxide in the water at night in warm weather.”

    So, there you have it. There are plus points and minus points and it’s up to individual koi keepers to make up their own minds as to which they prefer. Lara prefers clear water so that she can see her fish but she quoted Kevin and Les who are more interested in obtaining the best development they can get from their koi so they prefer green water. That doesn’t make one side wrong and the other right. It’s just a matter of choice as to what people want from their hobby.

    BTW If you want my opinion, I prefer clear water because I want to see my collection of manky sankes.

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  24. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Rider. My last pond before the new one. I had this for 19 years. In ground pond. Full of string algi. I never lost a fish in all that time. And
    I used to turn uv of in winter. No probs on mine. Parameters where always spot on. Fish where always fit and healthy. Colours good and all that. Plants and lillys ln the pond.
    Never lost a fish. With the new pond all that has changed. No plants no algi. In main pond.Lost a few fish. But a complete differant setup. Plus new pond syndrome. Pond has matured now.
    Only time will tell. To me anyway. Which is the better way. Algi in or algi out. Meaning uv off . And CBA treating to stop. My fingers toes are crossed. That this setup is going to work. Because its going to cost me a bloody fortune . To change things again. And the other half aint going to like it. Haha
    Trial and error mate. Somethings work for some. But not for others
    I also heard aligi is good for fish .
    For colours and skin.


    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  26. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    I'm not sure why you think my article is in disagreement with Mike. I have the greatest respect for his wide experience in koi breeding and conditions in Japanese mud ponds.

    As for koi keepers growing spirulina in a koi pond; in my article I don’t say that a pond keeper can grow spirulina instead of buying koi food with spirulina in it; in fact I say the opposite:

    I didn't say that you disagree with Mike Snaden. I also didn't say that a pond keeper can grow Spirulina.

  27. #19
    I try never get into an argument on a forum but, after Lara posted links to two of Mike's articles, you posted this:

    "The thing with Koi keeping, there seems to be folk that claim opposite sides are true and each side makes definitive statements, it’s a choice on who to believe:
    Algae in koi ponds"

    I think many people could take that as saying that my article on algae conflicted with Mike's.

    You also quoted me as disagreeing with Lara when she replied that she couldn't see any conflict

    "I can see conflicting advice, you’re saying algae won’t help and the article by Mankysanke says it will."

    As I explained, none of us disagree, we simply have our own preferences and make different choices as to what we each want from our hobby.

    Mike, myself and many others give our time freely and write articles to provide information that other koi keepers might like to read and which we hope will add to the general pool of information about koi, not to provide ammunition for conflict in the hobby. None of us write them so that they can be used to prove that others are wrong and it is unfair to quote me as being in disagreement with Lara who is another person I have great respect for, for what she brings to the hobby.

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  29. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai GSARider's Avatar
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    Yes it was with Feline and not the article. And I see major ‘preferences’ constantly, it seems you do t even follow your own advice on articles that you write.

 

 
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