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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Sturgeon / koi parasite treatments in a mixed pond

    Hi all

    Something i have been thinking about for spring as a topic for sturgeon keepers but it still seems miles away

    When spring eventually arrives and our koi become more active if you are not heated this is the ideal time for any low numbers of parasites not addressed / found before winter in our ponds to rear there ugly head as temps increase and try to out compete the koi / fishes immune system .

    With just koi in the pond its simple enough most of the time to treat for parasites , but with a mixed pond with sturgeon for me its only a slight increase in the buggery factor when dealing with parasites .

    The one problem for me over the years has been flukes and Trich but not every year but i often find frogs in my filter late on in the year why i have no idea

    Last spring i had Trich / flukes and costia .......bugger

    I got rid of the costia and Trich by salting the pond and the flukes killed with fluke solve (which can be used with salt ) .

    Basically for me salt worked with fluke solve to kill ALL parasites present and i believe this is cuttlebrook koi protocol for parasite treatment and they no longer use PP .

    One slight spanner in the works (for me) was that i lost all my sterlets with the 5 day salt treatment that koi and ALL other sturgeon are fine with , in fact sturgeon can tolerate a much higher salinity than koi .

    As most will know treatments like malachite and formaline and PP will kill sturgeon (some get lucky ) but i know from bitter experience the sturgeon can die a a week or so later so owners dont always associate the treatment with there loss .
    With PP the sturgeon kill will usually be within 20 minutes of using the treatment as they suffocate (my understanding of it ) but its very real .

    Again some lucky .

    With MG & f its the formaline that kills not the malachite , malachite is sturgeon safe .

    Malachite on its own kills Trichodena , i have used it on its own and it works a treat in my pond but for koi only ponds i would use MG&f for the simple reason that one pass of MG&F would also kill costia if present at the same time and no harm to the koi .

    You can get all the advice you need on treating a mixed pond with sturgeon for parasites and the correct food here or ask on there forum ...

    Sturgeon Guide, Sturgeon For Garden Ponds - sturgeons - Pond Life

    One thing to add is the advice i got off Dawn ( one of the mods ) for the use of columbo alperex as a costia treatment which is sturgeon safe and also kills trichodena ( confirmed in my pond )
    It wiped out costia as it said on the tin with all the sturgeon / sterlets in the pond so it was sturgeon safe as the product states ( which is just MG & aquaflavine )

    So there are ways of treating all parasites without removing your sturgeon from the pond imho .

    Happy sturgeon keeping



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    thanks alot

    it has been one of the Things bothering me, it's sometimes hard to get your head around the "medications" available

    what would you say is a good "first aid" kit for a koi/sturgeon pond ? besides salt and fluke solve ?

    and can you get rid of costia and tric with just salt baths ? (if so how many and how often ?)

  3. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Hi Frich

    I dont keep much in stock as a first aid kit to be honest as i can get most items locally the same day .
    I do have a spare air pump and water pump in stock in case one fails though .

    As far as salt baths go the only time i,ve used them is when i've returned my sturgeon back to the pond after using pp in the pond .

    You can use higher doses for some sturgeon species and i have never re introduced parasites back into the pond after salt bathing them .

    Different rates here half way down the page

    Costia (Ichthyobodo) - fishhealth - Pond Life

    For me if i found Trich or costia i would treat the whole pond

  4. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    yeah but being on a meter i dont like the idea of treating the Whole pond

    as for medications, i cant get anything from day to day realy. to get anything i need to order it in from UK so at least a week before i can reliably have anything.

    it's not realy been a big issue sofar, i've had 1 case of finding 1 skin fluke on my goldfish (sturgeons didnt look bothered at all, munching away as usual

    but i just dread the day there is something nasty that pokes it's ugly head out i know it will most likely happen at some point no matter how much i try to avoid it. and then it would be nice to be ready.

    but i guess having some fluke solve, MG, aquaflavine and a couple of kilo's of salt in stock isnt realy the biggest issue.

  5. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai Sopersonic74's Avatar
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    I would add some pp and CT to that,being in powder form there not going to go off for a long time.

  6. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Sorry Frich i thought you was in the uk , so as a treatment kit it would be wise to stock most meds .

    The problem with just salt bathing a fish with parasites is that there will still be some free swimming parasites in the pond , taking Trichodena as an example they can and do live in liner folds etc as well as on a koi so your never going to get a full kill (or as near as you can ) unless you treat the whole pond .

    With Trichodena and Costia with sturgeon in the pond i would use the Colombo Alperax route as it kills Trichodena and Costia .

  7. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sopersonic74 View Post
    I would add some pp and CT to that,being in powder form there not going to go off for a long time.
    yeah not going to to use PP with sturgeons

  8. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmel View Post
    Sorry Frich i thought you was in the uk , so as a treatment kit it would be wise to stock most meds .

    The problem with just salt bathing a fish with parasites is that there will still be some free swimming parasites in the pond , taking Trichodena as an example they can and do live in liner folds etc as well as on a koi so your never going to get a full kill (or as near as you can ) unless you treat the whole pond .

    With Trichodena and Costia with sturgeon in the pond i would use the Colombo Alperax route as it kills Trichodena and Costia .
    yeah i see your point with the salt.

    will need to get some of all these Things written Down (especialy the doses

  9. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai Sopersonic74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frich View Post
    yeah not going to to use PP with sturgeons
    Yeah I get that, just would have some on stand by, not gonna go off and also very useful for sterilising equipment

  10. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sopersonic74 View Post
    Yeah I get that, just would have some on stand by, not gonna go off and also very useful for sterilising equipment
    true

    as long as the sturgeon aint bigger then they are now the could get a trip to the qt tank.

    but at some point that aint gonna be viable

  11. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai Sopersonic74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frich View Post
    true

    as long as the sturgeon aint bigger then they are now the could get a trip to the qt tank.

    but at some point that aint gonna be viable
    Dunno, your QT is bigger than some ponds on here

  12. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sopersonic74 View Post
    Dunno, your QT is bigger than some ponds on here
    hehe

    yeah but i am very keen on making sure that the fish i have, has the best possible habitat.

    so once the sturgeons get to a point where they can swim naturaly in the qt i am not going to put them there for any long period of time.

    it's simply not fair to put a fish into a tank where it cant turn around.

    also the same reason i havent bought any koi yet, i want to make sure i have a pond where they can grow in without me having to worry about them outgrowing the pond before i ahve a chance to build a new one.

  13. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmel View Post
    Hi all

    Something i have been thinking about for spring as a topic for sturgeon keepers but it still seems miles away

    When spring eventually arrives and our koi become more active if you are not heated this is the ideal time for any low numbers of parasites not addressed / found before winter in our ponds to rear there ugly head as temps increase and try to out compete the koi / fishes immune system .

    With just koi in the pond its simple enough most of the time to treat for parasites , but with a mixed pond with sturgeon for me its only a slight increase in the buggery factor when dealing with parasites .

    The one problem for me over the years has been flukes and Trich but not every year but i often find frogs in my filter late on in the year why i have no idea

    Last spring i had Trich / flukes and costia .......bugger

    I got rid of the costia and Trich by salting the pond and the flukes killed with fluke solve (which can be used with salt ) .

    Basically for me salt worked with fluke solve to kill ALL parasites present and i believe this is cuttlebrook koi protocol for parasite treatment and they no longer use PP .

    One slight spanner in the works (for me) was that i lost all my sterlets with the 5 day salt treatment that koi and ALL other sturgeon are fine with , in fact sturgeon can tolerate a much higher salinity than koi .

    As most will know treatments like malachite and formaline and PP will kill sturgeon (some get lucky ) but i know from bitter experience the sturgeon can die a a week or so later so owners dont always associate the treatment with there loss .
    With PP the sturgeon kill will usually be within 20 minutes of using the treatment as they suffocate (my understanding of it ) but its very real .

    Again some lucky .

    With MG & f its the formaline that kills not the malachite , malachite is sturgeon safe .

    Malachite on its own kills Trichodena , i have used it on its own and it works a treat in my pond but for koi only ponds i would use MG&f for the simple reason that one pass of MG&F would also kill costia if present at the same time and no harm to the koi .

    You can get all the advice you need on treating a mixed pond with sturgeon for parasites and the correct food here or ask on there forum ...

    Sturgeon Guide, Sturgeon For Garden Ponds - sturgeons - Pond Life

    One thing to add is the advice i got off Dawn ( one of the mods ) for the use of columbo alperex as a costia treatment which is sturgeon safe and also kills trichodena ( confirmed in my pond )
    It wiped out costia as it said on the tin with all the sturgeon / sterlets in the pond so it was sturgeon safe as the product states ( which is just MG & aquaflavine )

    So there are ways of treating all parasites without removing your sturgeon from the pond imho .

    Happy sturgeon keeping
    Only rider Mel is for Guys to read the instructions - particularly in relation to their water hardness....

    Dave

  14. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Only rider Mel is for Guys to read the instructions - particularly in relation to their water hardness....

    Dave
    hmm abit confused (quite normal in my case i know)

    what do you mean, in relation to water hardness ??

    i have read alot of interesting pages regarding sturgeons, but i can remember seeing anything specific about hardness.

    or is it just in general pond water hardness ?

  15. #15
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frich View Post
    hmm abit confused (quite normal in my case i know)

    what do you mean, in relation to water hardness ??

    i have read alot of interesting pages regarding sturgeons, but i can remember seeing anything specific about hardness.

    or is it just in general pond water hardness ?
    The Columbo Alparex needs to be used over a certain hardness or it can be dodgy.

  16. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Frich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    The Columbo Alparex needs to be used over a certain hardness or it can be dodgy.
    ahh thanks for the heads up

 

 

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