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  1. #1

    4040 RO setup design

    Hi, looking at building my own RO setup using a 4040 membrane.
    My current TDS is around 375-425 and is very hard (Bristol). Planning on installing a water softener prior to the membrane to help with the membranes life. Plus a large carbon dechlorinator will be installed prior to this, both of which I already have. Can somebody with more experience of RO systems let me know if I'm on the right track?

    I'm presuming the valve can be used to manually adjust the waste to product ratio in place of a fixed restrictor. The solenoid valve will be controlled via a timer to open for a minute or so ever hour to auto flush the membrane.

    Both RO outlet and dechlorinated outlets will be mixed to get my desired TDS and waste to RO water output, instead of using a fixed flow restrictor.
    4040 RO setup.jpg



  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickleback View Post
    Hi, looking at building my own RO setup using a 4040 membrane.
    My current TDS is around 375-425 and is very hard (Bristol). Planning on installing a water softener prior to the membrane to help with the membranes life. Plus a large carbon dechlorinator will be installed prior to this, both of which I already have. Can somebody with more experience of RO systems let me know if I'm on the right track?

    I'm presuming the valve can be used to manually adjust the waste to product ratio in place of a fixed restrictor. The solenoid valve will be controlled via a timer to open for a minute or so ever hour to auto flush the membrane.

    Both RO outlet and dechlorinated outlets will be mixed to get my desired TDS and waste to RO water output, instead of using a fixed flow restrictor.
    4040 RO setup.jpg
    All looks good to me. Only thing I do different is to have the 5micron sediment filter after the carbon filter.

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  4. #3
    Thanks for the reply Keith.

    Whats the reason for running the sediment filter after the carbon?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickleback View Post
    Thanks for the reply Keith.

    Whats the reason for running the sediment filter after the carbon?
    Having the sediment filter after the carbon stops any carbon residue getting to the RO membranes. Also you don’t need to worry too much about flushing through the carbon filter after a carbon change.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Having the sediment filter after the carbon stops any carbon residue getting to the RO membranes. Also you don’t need to worry too much about flushing through the carbon filter after a carbon change.
    Makes perfect sense

  7. #6
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    I am running a 4040 on my pond currently- output is good with no booster pump.

    Works great- the only disadvantage is the cost of metered tap water in my case.

    If you want to get your valve setup optimally it'd very useful to buy a couple of inline TDS meters for before your membrane and on the RO output. You can then gradually close the valve until you reach your target output TDS. It's also really nice to have flow meters on the output and waste so you know how much you're actually getting. When your membrane gets old you will notice you're getting less and less flow for any value of TDS so you know when you need to replace it.

    When I get round to it in the new year and I am going to experiment with pond water RO recycling- taking water from the clean side of my drum and pumping through the membrane. I would then top up the pond either with tap water through the dechlorinator, or possibly get a second 4040 for new incoming water. I will start a thread when I do it incase anyone on here is interested. The goal of the pond recycling is 2 fold- to reduce water wastage and also reduce pond nitrate levels.

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  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I am running a 4040 on my pond currently- output is good with no booster pump.

    Works great- the only disadvantage is the cost of metered tap water in my case.

    If you want to get your valve setup optimally it'd very useful to buy a couple of inline TDS meters for before your membrane and on the RO output. You can then gradually close the valve until you reach your target output TDS. It's also really nice to have flow meters on the output and waste so you know how much you're actually getting. When your membrane gets old you will notice you're getting less and less flow for any value of TDS so you know when you need to replace it.

    When I get round to it in the new year and I am going to experiment with pond water RO recycling- taking water from the clean side of my drum and pumping through the membrane. I would then top up the pond either with tap water through the dechlorinator, or possibly get a second 4040 for new incoming water. I will start a thread when I do it incase anyone on here is interested. The goal of the pond recycling is 2 fold- to reduce water wastage and also reduce pond nitrate levels.
    Hi ,looking forward to see how you get on with the pond recycling as need to give it some thoughts for next winter project,
    my pond is silmar size to yours and being on a water meter is bad news for ro,would great to see some pictures of your recycling set up when you have it and running.
    cheers jay

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  11. #8
    Jay I will take a few photos of my 40/40 recycling set up over the weekend.

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  13. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Jay I will take a few photos of my 40/40 recycling set up over the weekend.
    Cheers Keith that would help me out.

  14. #10
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I am planning to copy Andy Finch’s setup- he made a nice video of his setup
    https://vimeo.com/38305859

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  16. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I am planning to copy Andy Finch’s setup- he made a nice video of his setup
    https://vimeo.com/38305859
    Thanks for that video clip.

  17. #12
    1 pump that feeds inline heater then returns back to pond from the fluidized K1 chamber which is gravity fed from the drum filter.

    2 this is a 2” Y fitting that is then reduced down to 1”

    3 water then passes through a 10” 5 micron sediment filter.

    4 booster pump

    5 solenoid valve that is wired into the same timer as the pump to control on/off as I run the recycling 1 hour on 1 hour off….

    6 then through the 40/40 membrane before returning back to the pond.
    20180120_102653_LI.jpg20180120_102430 (2).jpg20180120_102544.jpg
    Last edited by keithatrax; 20-01-2018 at 01:31 PM. Reason: more pics

  18. #13
    These are the two 450gallon units used to top up the pond from mains supply. The waste water from the first unit passes through the second unit this saves less water being flushed down the drain.
    All the back flushing is automated with timers to back flush for 1 min every hour.
    All looks a bit messy at the moment as it’s all been work in progress but now I have everything running as I like my next project is to tidy up all the pipe work and cables etc..
    20180120_102753.jpg

  19. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    1 pump that feeds inline heater then returns back to pond from the fluidized K1 chamber which is gravity fed from the drum filter.

    2 this is a 2” Y fitting that is then reduced down to 1”

    3 water then passes through a 10” 5 micron sediment filter.

    4 booster pump

    5 solenoid valve that is wired into the same timer as the pump to control on/off as I run the recycling 1 hour on 1 hour off….

    6 then through the 40/40 membrane before returning back to the pond.
    20180120_102653_LI.jpg20180120_102430 (2).jpg20180120_102544.jpg
    Thanks Keith that’s so helpful and very straightforward to set up off my drum.
    know for the questions lol,what sort of percentages are you getting for good water and waste on 4040?
    allso when the booster pump is off does the solenoid valve close to prevent water going though the 4040 ,if so is there no problem with pressure on the 5 micron filter.

    do you use the waste water from the ro for drum washing (header tank)

    last one ,how much water are you putting though the top up ro unit a week?
    on a water meter and pond with 6400 gallons ro is not cheap.
    thanks again for putting the time to post the pictures

  20. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by JAY76 View Post
    Thanks Keith that’s so helpful and very straightforward to set up off my drum.
    know for the questions lol,what sort of percentages are you getting for good water and waste on 4040?
    allso when the booster pump is off does the solenoid valve close to prevent water going though the 4040 ,if so is there no problem with pressure on the 5 micron filter.

    do you use the waste water from the ro for drum washing (header tank)

    last one ,how much water are you putting though the top up ro unit a week?
    on a water meter and pond with 6400 gallons ro is not cheap.
    thanks again for putting the time to post the pictures

    lol no problem I’m happy to help…
    The ratio from the 4040 is 70% good 30% waste but this can change depending on temperature at best I can achieve 80/20.
    The booster pump goes off at the same time the solenoid closes, no problem with pressure on the 5 micron filter.

    I don’t use the waste water for cleaning the drum for two reasons
    Firstly I don’t see the point in filtering out all the bad stuff then putting it back in.
    Secondly I don’t have the space for another tank in the filter room.

    During the feeding season I use around 1000ltr per day of mains water the ratio through the two 450g units is around 50/50.

    My pond is just shy of 4000gallons also on a water metre, with the two 450g units I get a 2% water change per day, with the 4040 I get a 4% water change per day so combined gives me 6% water change per day.

  21. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    lol no problem I’m happy to help…
    The ratio from the 4040 is 70% good 30% waste but this can change depending on temperature at best I can achieve 80/20.
    The booster pump goes off at the same time the solenoid closes, no problem with pressure on the 5 micron filter.

    I don’t use the waste water for cleaning the drum for two reasons
    Firstly I don’t see the point in filtering out all the bad stuff then putting it back in.
    Secondly I don’t have the space for another tank in the filter room.

    During the feeding season I use around 1000ltr per day of mains water the ratio through the two 450g units is around 50/50.

    My pond is just shy of 4000gallons also on a water metre, with the two 450g units I get a 2% water change per day, with the 4040 I get a 4% water change per day so combined gives me 6% water change per day.
    I am guessing your water bill is £50-60 for the 450g a month?
    could you change less on the 450g on the top up and 4040 waste in the feeding season or are you after 6% a day water change?

    good point about the header tank with cleaning drum with bad water.
    had a few problems with skin on some of my koi and with a TDS of over 500 out of the tap and ph over 8 hoping soft clean water will help long term.

    were did you get all the pressure pipe and the solenoid valve from as got booster pump and 10inch filter.

    I know you have ran ro on your pond from day one,but do you think your koi look after then self in soft good water compared to others near you that run hard water?
    cheers jay

  22. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JAY76 View Post
    I am guessing your water bill is £50-60 for the 450g a month?
    could you change less on the 450g on the top up and 4040 waste in the feeding season or are you after 6% a day water change?

    good point about the header tank with cleaning drum with bad water.
    had a few problems with skin on some of my koi and with a TDS of over 500 out of the tap and ph over 8 hoping soft clean water will help long term.

    were did you get all the pressure pipe and the solenoid valve from as got booster pump and 10inch filter.

    I know you have ran ro on your pond from day one,but do you think your koi look after then self in soft good water compared to others near you that run hard water?
    cheers jay

    You’re not far off, my water bill is around £700 per year.
    Yes I could get away with less on the 450g but I feel the more water changed the better.
    Most of the pressure pipe fittings are from https://www.pipestock.com/?gclid=Cjw...hoC8t0QAvD_BwE
    The solenoid valve and half inch fittings came from Ro-man.com
    There will always be a debate weather RO is better or worth the extra ££ than hard water. For me it’s very simple, the koi I choose to buy come from a soft water environment, the dealer I buy my koi from also runs soft water and seeing what can be achieved in such conditions is mind blowing. Right or wrong this is my reasoning for running RO.

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  24. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    You’re not far off, my water bill is around £700 per year.
    Yes I could get away with less on the 450g but I feel the more water changed the better.
    Most of the pressure pipe fittings are from https://www.pipestock.com/?gclid=Cjw...hoC8t0QAvD_BwE
    The solenoid valve and half inch fittings came from Ro-man.com
    There will always be a debate weather RO is better or worth the extra ££ than hard water. For me it’s very simple, the koi I choose to buy come from a soft water environment, the dealer I buy my koi from also runs soft water and seeing what can be achieved in such conditions is mind blowing. Right or wrong this is my reasoning for running RO.
    I have seen from you other post on here you have bought koi from yume koi,so it make sense to run soft water.
    thanks for the links for pipe fittings and solenoid valve.
    how are you keeping kh or stable ph running ro?
    allso when you run two 450 g ro units do you have two pumps?
    sorry for all the questions,jay

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  26. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JAY76 View Post
    I have seen from you other post on here you have bought koi from yume koi,so it make sense to run soft water.
    thanks for the links for pipe fittings and solenoid valve.
    how are you keeping kh or stable ph running ro?
    allso when you run two 450 g ro units do you have two pumps?
    sorry for all the questions,jay
    No need to apologise
    I use a PH controller to dose bicarb to maintain a PH of 7 Eutech Alpha PH560 Controller KH is always around 1 dh.
    I don’t run any pumps on the 450g units as the mains pressure is good enough at 4 bar.

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  28. #20
    Are the ph controllers and probes reliable?have heard bad things about the dosing pump be unreliable not sure if this a problem you have found,do you get much of a ph swing though the day?

    sods law I have shit water and poor pressure so would need two pumps one for4040 and top up ro.

    how do you pefilter your top up ro unit.

 

 
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