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  1. #1

    KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?

    Following on from a different contentious thread (it was all Tashy's fault) I thought a dedicated discussion might be interesting.

    My opinion is that soft water is a good thing but do we need low KH / pH alongside that?
    I get that a relatively low pH (around 7.0) will minimise NH3 but if that's at the expense of nitrite is it the right thing to do?
    With low KH there's a danger of a pH crash if you don't monitor / manage it. Is that worth the risk?
    I'd say there plenty of evidence out there to "prove" RO is a good thing for fish growth. But why? Because it lowers the GH? Because it lowers the KH? Because it lets you run with a pH around 7? All of the above?
    I'm pretty open minded of what the results are going to be but just over a year ago I turned off my RO to try to balance NH3 and nitrite and never turned it back on. Right now I only used softened water (low GH, relatively high KH and pH) as top up and I think I'm getting similar growth to that which I got when running RO without the risks. I get close to zero GH in my pond whilst the pH is around 8.0. The KH is around 8. NH3 close to zero (calculated from NH4, pH and temperature measurements) as is nitrite.
    What do we think?


    Last edited by admin; 30-06-2017 at 02:30 PM.

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  3. #2
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    My current plan is to run TDS and GH as low as possible, and pH as close to 7 as possible, but while keeping KH at around 2 to 2.5 DH. So long as that doesn't give me any nitrite issues then I will be very happy.

    My aim is of course growth, but I also want to improve skin quality and prevent shimmies.

    I am convinced my koi are more 'hungry' at lower pH's- so even if it wasn't for the beneficial effect on free ammonia levels I would be wanting to get my pH down.

    I am currently running the RO for around 9 hours a day to gradually bring down GH and KH (that's around 600 litres per day). I will use a pH controller to add bicarb once KH gets down low enough.

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  5. #3
    What makes you think their appetite is due to low pH rather than GH?
    Last edited by admin; 30-06-2017 at 02:30 PM.

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  7. #4
    Oh Ye blame me KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?. This should be an interesting thread KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    What makes you think their appetite is due to low pH rather than GH?


    KeepingKoi - Index page - free, independent and friendly.
    Because until now I have never been in control of GH and it's always been at around the same level, where as KH I have been able to run lower. Maybe their appetites will be even greater again when I get both GH and KH lower, better stock up on koi food

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    If I'm honest I'd have to say I haven't got a clue John and I don't really care, my fish range from around 60cm to 90cm and still growing so I'm happy with that.
    My readings are constant and stable at pH 7.6, KH 3 GH 12, is purity of water so essential or is quality of water the key, fish live longer in good quality water so they tend to grow bigger.
    Alias PWNN - Steve
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  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pondwithnoname View Post
    If I'm honest I'd have to say I haven't got a clue John and I don't really care, my fish range from around 60cm to 90cm and still growing so I'm happy with that.
    My readings are constant and stable at pH 7.6, KH 3 GH 12, is purity of water so essential or is quality of water the key, fish live longer in good quality water so they tend to grow bigger.
    If you've grown a fish to in excess of 90cm in your hard water perhaps you're proof RO / soft water isn't really required.
    Can we see pictures?
    Last edited by admin; 30-06-2017 at 02:31 PM.

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  15. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Pwnn am i right in believing you are an advocate of clay and use regularly? If so could that not be part the reason for the high GH? As the ph and kh looks to be on a softer/moderate side. Do you know what your tap kh and gh is mate? Its just good to see the whole picture and as john says maybe you are proof that RO/soft water isnt all what its cracked up to be.


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    Lol, John who said anything about being in excess of 90cm my largest I'm guessing is around 85/90cm but I ain't about to catch, stress, and see it expell blood from the gills just to prove it but here's some pond photos that proves nothing so you'll have to take my word for it.
    Lee, my tap water is GH 12 and KH is 7/8, the pond is tiny, heavily stocked and over filtered I've not been using clay lately mainly because I don't want to cloud the water even slightly.
    Maybe if I had RO all the fish would be bigger and better looking but in my pond I doubt it plus I've never spent a huge amount of money when buying the fish anyway, I sometimes wonder if the whole koi keeping hobby is overthought and perhaps a little too clinical, there's some beautiful ponds out there that have cost a small fortune to put together as have the fish in them yet they have reoccurring health and parasite problems, why is that.
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    Alias PWNN - Steve
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    http://www.freewebs.com/koikoi/

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  19. #10
    Unmeasured fish ..... I'm going to assume 75cm KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?
    Last edited by admin; 30-06-2017 at 02:31 PM.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    Unmeasured fish ..... I'm going to assume 75cm KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


    KeepingKoi - Index page - free, independent and friendly.
    Ha ha ha, that's fine who am I to argue with your knowledge of my fish I'm happy for you to adjust things to suit your point of view, I'll cut its tail off if you like.
    Alias PWNN - Steve
    My favourite and recommended web site is......
    http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/
    http://www.freewebs.com/koikoi/

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  23. #12
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    LOL, comments about men and measurements spring to mind, but I'm keeping my mouth shut

    Your pond looks lovely and tranquil Steve.

  24. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pondwithnoname View Post
    Ha ha ha, that's fine who am I to argue with your knowledge of my fish I'm happy for you to adjust things to suit your point of view, I'll cut its tail off if you like.
    My guessing from your photos is the same as you guessing from the side of your pond isn't it?
    I'm happy to be proven wrong KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?
    Last edited by admin; 30-06-2017 at 02:31 PM.

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  26. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    If you like , please continue.
    Alias PWNN - Steve
    My favourite and recommended web site is......
    http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/
    http://www.freewebs.com/koikoi/

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  28. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    LOL, comments about men and measurements spring to mind, but I'm keeping my mouth shut

    Your pond looks lovely and tranquil Steve.
    Thanks that was my objective, I'm like a Buddhist monk (and I look like Buddha) sitting there with a touch of Zen relaxation music playing in the background.
    It maybe small but it keeps me happy as the saying goes.
    Alias PWNN - Steve
    My favourite and recommended web site is......
    http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/
    http://www.freewebs.com/koikoi/

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  30. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pondwithnoname View Post
    If you like , please continue.
    No need. I'm happy KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


    KeepingKoi - Index page - free, independent and friendly.

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  32. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    Here's a photo with a koi turning on the surface, it's probably only 1cm long.........better safe than sorry when guessing size.
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    Alias PWNN - Steve
    My favourite and recommended web site is......
    http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/
    http://www.freewebs.com/koikoi/

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  34. #18
    What are the size of your coping stones?
    Last edited by admin; 30-06-2017 at 02:31 PM.

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  36. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    What are the size of your coping stones?


    KeepingKoi - Index page - free, independent and friendly.
    2.4m......KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Alias PWNN - Steve
    My favourite and recommended web site is......
    http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/
    http://www.freewebs.com/koikoi/

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  38. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pondwithnoname View Post
    2.4m......KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Tell the truth for once, you can do it KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


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