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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    Hungry and growing well I'll give you but how the hell do you know they're happy? KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?
    How do you protect yourself from pH crashes? I used to have auto bicarbonate dosing but it always worried me when I worked away that it was a single point of failure.


    www.keepingkoi.com - free, independent and friendly.

    I use a PH controller that doses bicarb when the PH falls below 7.00
    If I am away during the growing season I set a safe mix of RO/mains water to maintain a safe KH/PH.

    20160929_231836.jpg

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  3. #42
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    I use a PH controller that doses bicarb when the PH falls below 7.00
    If I am away during the growing season I set a safe mix of RO/mains water to maintain a safe KH/PH.

    20160929_231836.jpg
    I think you have the same pH controller John has (that he isn't using any more). It's the one I was going to get.

    Do you mind me asking which probe you are using with it?
    I need to get one very soon and not sure I can justify getting the £420 one Mike is selling, especially as it is my daughter's birthday this month and I am currently trying to re-landscape the whole garden on a budget

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I think you have the same pH controller John has (that he isn't using any more). It's the one I was going to get.

    Do you mind me asking which probe you are using with it?
    I need to get one very soon and not sure I can justify getting the £420 one Mike is selling, especially as it is my daughter's birthday this month and I am currently trying to re-landscape the whole garden on a budget

    Not at all Lara I bought the whole set up including the probe from Mike, I believe he only sales one particular probe with the Alpha 560.
    Was £400 for the controller/probe plus I had the privilege of buying a koi.

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  6. #44
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai sff's Avatar
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    great controller lara running one myself theres two set points on them my first sp1 controls dosing pump and the second sp2 controls a 240v solanoid valve with mains water feed hence dosing pump failure mains water will do the dosing

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  8. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    Following on from a different contentious thread (it was all Tashy's fault) I thought a dedicated discussion might be interesting.

    My opinion is that soft water is a good thing but do we need low KH / pH alongside that?
    I get that a relatively low pH (around 7.0) will minimise NH3 but if that's at the expense of nitrite is it the right thing to do?
    With low KH there's a danger of a pH crash if you don't monitor / manage it. Is that worth the risk?
    I'd say there plenty of evidence out there to "prove" RO is a good thing for fish growth. But why? Because it lowers the GH? Because it lowers the KH? Because it lets you run with a pH around 7? All of the above?
    I'm pretty open minded of what the results are going to be but just over a year ago I turned off my RO to try to balance NH3 and nitrite and never turned it back on. Right now I only used softened water (low GH, relatively high KH and pH) as top up and I think I'm getting similar growth to that which I got when running RO without the risks. I get close to zero GH in my pond whilst the pH is around 8.0. The KH is around 8. NH3 close to zero (calculated from NH4, pH and temperature measurements) as is nitrite.
    What do we think?
    . How do you soften the water sorry I’m new

  9. #46
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai RJW2012's Avatar
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    KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?

    Not speaking for John, but we both use a water softener on our incoming mains water ( I know that from all Johns posts on the subject!)

    The water softener works by removing the magnesium and calcium present in your water supply through a process of ion exchange.

    I have only recently installed one, not for the fish, more for my daughter who struggles a little with psoriasis - I have seen no negative impact on my fish or in fact my water parameters, not that I was expecting anything anyway (e.g. it wouldn’t improve your TDS; mine runs around 230-260 and has remained the same since running the softener).

    Rob.


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    Last edited by RJW2012; 07-02-2018 at 03:21 PM.

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  11. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    I ,m really interested in this have you any details or web link for the unit , I live in Thailand and I my water supply is from a bore hole and very hard , i,d put it on a dedicated pipe for the pond , thank you john

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  13. #48
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    KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?

    There are a few companies in the U.K., but I couldn’t help you out in Thailand.

    My source water (South East) is likewise from boreholes and pretty hard, although I understand various water companies are now experimenting with water softening on a larger scale given the health benefits.

    Harvey are one of the bigger suppliers/installers in the U.K.

    https://www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk

    If you can get hold of a unit, actually installing it isn’t massively complicated and having seen what the Plumber did.

    Block salt is used to clean the softener unit periodically; you insert two large blocks into the unit basically.

    (You don’t get loads of salt dumped into your pond either, before someone asks!)

    Rob.


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    Last edited by RJW2012; 07-02-2018 at 03:27 PM.

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  15. #49
    Rob is spot on with what I do.
    I started doing it to help the RO I was running at the time but since then I’ve turned off the RO, only use the softener and am very happy with the results.
    Any second now some people who haven’t tried a softener will be along to tell you what a bad idea it is KH, GH & pH .... what's your target and why?


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  17. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    If I managed to get one, it would be a different make ( I’ve seen something for swimming pools ) but what’s the best way to use it , I was. Thinking a separate feed to pond , would I just trickle it in 24/7 ?

  18. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsaijohn View Post
    If I managed to get one, it would be a different make ( I’ve seen something for swimming pools ) but what’s the best way to use it , I was. Thinking a separate feed to pond , would I just trickle it in 24/7 ?
    I trickle in 24/7 with softened water. I’d say that’s the best option.
    Ideally you want a twin cylinder model (I use a Harvey’s) so one cylinder is regenerating whilst the other is in use otherwise for a couple of hours at a time you’re putting unsoftened water in.
    Check softener capacity vs what you think you’ll need. If I feed 1lpm I’m at the upper end of what a domestic unit can supply and I can use 25kgs per week of salt to do it.
    We soften all the water coming into the house, it makes no difference to the pond but we prefer soft water.


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  19. #52
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    I,v been looking around today at units , but it’s like talking to idiots in Chinese . I can speak a lot of Thai but when it gets technical it’s difficult,and my wife’s (Thai) away . But they do not sell any water softeners that use salt they use resin , how much they produce and at what level they have no idea ,how often I would have to change resin etc etc not a clue . So stuck for now , I,m going to talk to Thai koikeepers and see if anybody softens their water and what they use , but thank you I,m going to post a separate thread on my kh and gh maybe you could take a look and offer some advice . Regards john

  20. #53
    They generally have resin inside but use salt to regenerate the resin.
    The resin normally lasts a few years.


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  21. #54
    Not many agree but I think low GH and high KH is about as good as it gets for the following reasons:
    Maximise growth through low GH.
    No danger of a pH crash because of high KH. So no need for bicarbonate dosage.
    Less time to mature media because of high KH.
    Nitrite and ammonia toxicity levels are more aligned. Low KH tends to push ammonia down but increase nitrite leading to an imbalance where ammonia is near zero (good) but nitrite often over acceptable levels.


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  23. #55
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    When I mentioned salt they had no idea what I was talking about , so I could buy a cartridge put resin in it connect it to my pond tap and turn it on ?? Then what , all these people want to do is sell you something then it’s up to you if it’s the wrong size or doesn’t do the job they don’t care

  24. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsaijohn View Post
    When I mentioned salt they had no idea what I was talking about , so I could buy a cartridge put resin in it connect it to my pond tap and turn it on ?? Then what , all these people want to do is sell you something then it’s up to you if it’s the wrong size or doesn’t do the job they don’t care
    That’s right as a start but if you don’t regenerate the resin it will stop working after a few hours.


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  25. #57
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    Ok thanks just posted about my gh and kh perhaps you could take a look and tell what all means

  26. #58
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    They have one unit that takes a resin cartridge but it’s small , like you,d fit under a sink and they do a lager model but how would I know when the cartridge needed changing ? It’s not east out here lol

  27. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsaijohn View Post
    They have one unit that takes a resin cartridge but it’s small , like you,d fit under a sink and they do a lager model but how would I know when the cartridge needed changing ? It’s not east out here lol
    Measure the GH on your output.


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  28. #60
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    I have it’s weird 4/5 and kh 14 same as pond

 

 
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