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Thread: PH controllers

  1. #1

    PH controllers

    Question for those of you that are using the above.
    Can anyone provide me with a link for a reliable PH controller and dosing pump? I’m currently using a Marine Magic Dosing pump but finding it difficult to judge the amount of Bi-carb needed to maintain a steady PH.



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Question for those of you that are using the above.
    Can anyone provide me with a link for a reliable PH controller and dosing pump? I’m currently using a Marine Magic Dosing pump but finding it difficult to judge the amount of Bi-carb needed to maintain a steady PH.
    John Kitching is using one he highly recommends, he's out in god knows where at the moment but he did recently mentioned it in one of his posts if that's any help.
    Alias PWNN - Steve
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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    He's in Africa somewhere training people how to mix cement.
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  4. #4
    Training people to mix cement indeed!
    Here's the post I wrote about mine:
    https://www.koiforum.uk/water-treatm...carbonate.html
    It's an Alpha 560 controller which I bought with a high quality industrial pH probe from Yume Koi a couple of years ago for £400.
    The pump I use is one extracted from another unit but any 240v peristaltic pump will do. They're cheap as chips so I'd be tempted to buy two so you have a spare in case one fails but they're very reliable in my experience.


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  5. Thanks keithatrax, Bigmel Thanked / Liked this Post
  6. #5
    Ok thanks guys, seems simple enough. It would appear the more money spent on the probe the better…

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Ok thanks guys, seems simple enough. It would appear the more money spent on the probe the better…
    Yeah but ....
    To my thinking there are two potential problems with the drift of a probe.
    Sorry if this is teaching granny to suck eggs but the calibration of a pH probe is linear so you have an offset and a slope. Both will change over time. More expensive probes seem to change less. A lot of people seem to get obsessed with calibrating the probes regularly (using buffers of usually pH 4 and pH 7), this changes the slope and the offset. This is a good idea when you're measuring an unknown pH but I don't see the point when you're holding the pH at a given value (as we are when using a controller to add bicarbonate). pH goes low, pump turns on, pH comes back up, pump turns off. It isn't proportional so it doesn't make any difference how low the pH has gone. The summary of my waffle is I don't think you need to do full calibrations after the initial one, you can just change the offset so the pH is correct at your given value.
    If anyone is still awake I'm sorry for going on but rarely does a subject come up I know something about


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  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    Yeah but ....
    To my thinking there are two potential problems with the drift of a probe.
    Sorry if this is teaching granny to suck eggs but the calibration of a pH probe is linear so you have an offset and a slope. Both will change over time. More expensive probes seem to change less. A lot of people seem to get obsessed with calibrating the probes regularly (using buffers of usually pH 4 and pH 7), this changes the slope and the offset. This is a good idea when you're measuring an unknown pH but I don't see the point when you're holding the pH at a given value (as we are when using a controller to add bicarbonate). pH goes low, pump turns on, pH comes back up, pump turns off. It isn't proportional so it doesn't make any difference how low the pH has gone. The summary of my waffle is I don't think you need to do full calibrations after the initial one, you can just change the offset so the pH is correct at your given value.
    If anyone is still awake I'm sorry for going on but rarely does a subject come up I know something about


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    Thanks John
    I see Darren at Absolute is selling the Alpha 560 he also has a Sentek PH Electrode PI11 for £185
    Do you think this probe would be ok?

  10. #8
    Generally with the probes the bigger the more expensive the better but I can't tell you if thats a good one or a cheap Chinese import sorry.


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  11. #9
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Acro_Bob's Avatar
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    Ummm. Chemists out there can correct me, but, adding bicarb on its own would be ionically imbalanced (based on knowledge in seawater I will add).

    Why not use Kalkwasser (Saturated Calcium Hydroxide). Its balanced and has a Ph of about 12 when fresh and can be mixed / dosed semi automatically.

    Pump wise, try a company called Verder or search google for condensate pumps for aircon.

    Probe Wise... Aqua Medic, Tunze, PinPoint, all do Ph controllers.

    ** Edited - not Sodium Hydroxide.... Calcium Hydroxide **
    Last edited by Acro_Bob; 20-10-2016 at 12:41 PM.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion pondwithnoname's Avatar
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    This is an old thread you've resurrected Bob but none the less a good one.
    I don't think I'd want to be adding something as harsh as caustic soda to my pond in any form.
    But tell us more about saturated sodium hydroxide, it's not something I've ever heard off as a pond or aquarium additive, isn't it just a weakened form of caustic soda?
    Alias PWNN - Steve
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  13. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Ok i,m tight ...lol..

    All i do is maintain a KH of 4 and check every week and add bicarb if it shifts , i,ve got to know that 300 g a week is needed in summer .

    At 4 kh , if i check weekly it wont suddenly crash and the koi dont seem bothered with my regime .

    I know its very basic and congrats to John and others who are doing it more precisely

    Just thought i would post up my method .

    A friend of mine locally just uses a pin point PH meter ( about £100 iirc ) with the probe in the filter and keeps his ph at 7.6 ( which is kh 4 ) , if it starts to drop he adds bicarb to buffer ph back to 7.6

    Probe needs cleaning every few weeks .

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  15. #12
    Hi folks.
    Not been on here for ages but TapaTalk still had notifications turned on for this thread.
    A few months ago I turned off RO because I was struggling with nitrite. It was proportionally much higher than ammonia.
    I'd say my pond chemistry is now much more stable than its ever been.


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    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Acro_Bob's Avatar
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    Right - c**kup edited... Calcium Hydroxide.... Not Sodium Hydroxide - makes a big diference!! Sorry

    I'd need to go off and do the proper chemistry stuff to see what happens in freshwater but its used widely in the reef aquariums to pull Ph up (often overnight dosing to prevent Ph swings). Just google 'Kalk dosing' and seek out anything by a chap called Randy Holmes Farley. Deltec and Ratz make stirrers but you can mix your own and just drip it in slowly from a bag with some pin holes in it. Dosing upto 1 or 2% of tank volume isn't unheard of and some use it as their sole means of maintaining Ph, Kh and Calcium. But its not without its downfalls and needs to be dosed slowly if not to precipitate things we want to keep (like Magnesium). More modern approaches exist these days but its still useful stuff.

    The thing that stood out to me is that dosing just the carbonate element (Sodium Bicarb) is imbalanced as you want the carbonates to prop up the Ph, but the Sodium has nowhere to go if the compound gives up the carbonates (in a reef we'd dose Sodium Bicarb and Calcium Chloride to keep things balanced). I know from experience that Ionic imbalance can cause Ph to drop, but thats in salt water.... Any chemists, please step in?

    It was more a question than a statement - please don't go trying Kalk addition to your pond. Don't want to cause anything bad to happen to Koi as my experience is based on reef tanks and some underlying chemistry

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Calcium hydroxide is more commonly known as lime.
    As a general rule not something any koi keeper wants in their pond.
    If you're worried about where the sodium goes, why aren't you worried about where the calcium goes? I don't want any extra calcium in my pond than I already have from the general hardness going in via the tap water top ups.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    in a marine set up the calcium is used by calcium depositing algae as well as in the creation of coral skeletons by converting to CaCO3 / calcium carbonate, a peristatic pump and a magnetic stirring flea are helpful in providing regular doses and keeping it in suspension


    lime used to be frequently applied to ponds and lakes to help buffer the pH in the years of anthropogenic acid rain in northern Europe. but it needs to be done correctly in order to offset the very rapid chemical reaction that occurs when contact with water occurs, not one for the have a go wet chemist as very easy to over do it
    the slow pond build thread

  21. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Question for those of you that are using the above.
    Can anyone provide me with a link for a reliable PH controller and dosing pump? I’m currently using a Marine Magic Dosing pump but finding it difficult to judge the amount of Bi-carb needed to maintain a steady PH.

    Hi Keith, looking to set up my ph controller and dosing pump,how have you found your ph probe has performed and any recommend dosing pump.

    cheers jay

  22. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JAY76 View Post
    Hi Keith, looking to set up my ph controller and dosing pump,how have you found your ph probe has performed and any recommend dosing pump.

    cheers jay

    Hi Jay below are links to the equipment I use.

    BlackStone Dosing Pump - Water Testing - Absolute Koi
    Sentek PH Electrode PI11/PT100/5M/CFE
    Eutech Alpha PH560 Controller

    The controller and dosing pump have been excellent I have tried the cheaper dosing pumps but got fed-up of changing the small pieces of plastic hose every few months. Had a slight issue with the probe during the summer as the ph reading would randomly rise and fall but this seems to of sorted its self out now but I do keep a spare in stock just in case. It’s all been running since June 2016 with no replacements

  23. #18
    Thanks for the links ,been looking at absolute koi but was unsure on ph probe.

    now using my old R.O. unit to lower TDS ,gh etc,then going to recycle pond water though new 4040 unit,still unsure on how to pipe up backwash on 4040.any advise on how you done yours? Cheers jay

  24. #19
    I noticed today I’ve still got my 4040, pH controller, probe and dosing pump.
    All good gear but they’ve sat for at least a couple of years.
    Any use to anyone?

  25. #20
    Hi John ,I am very interested any idea on price?pm if rather keep the price off the thread.
    jay

 

 
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