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  1. #1

    Smile my 6000 litre pond build

    hi folks. I joined up and posted a few times last year. We only moved into our new house a couple of years ago and have had lots of work to do so progress has been a bit slow. I've been thinking about the build over the winter though and now picking up again, having said that I don't think it will be next spring/summer until I actually start building it. I'm taking advantage of a rainy, windy day to post this actually... so here's a few pics to bring us up-to-date. oh regarding the title of this thread, I'm not actually planning on keeping Koi at all! I'm specifically wanting to get hold of some really high grade bristol shubunkins to keep in this pond, but I guess the build I am going for is what could be called a typically (although quite small) koi pond. More on that later but for now here's some pics.

    This is the garden on the day we moved in. Looking a bit sad but I've got a vision!

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    That's the left side of the garden... this next one is of the right side, where the pond will be.... eventually

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    Some Leylandi that need tackling too!

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    Last couple of shots... looking across from the other corner and the patio area.

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    So those shots above were taken in February 2017 when we moved in.The first thing I did was to dig up the main lawn as I didn't fancy having to mow it during the summer. This was piled up on the smaller lawn section (my daughter helped for a few minutes then got bored :-D)

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    Last edited by clippo; 09-04-2021 at 08:01 PM.

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  3. #2
    progress slowed over the summer of 2016 due to other works but I managed to cover the main lawn space with weed fabric, rip out the back fence (and ton of crap that was behind it) and in autumn we had the Leylandi topped or removed.

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    The mound of turf needed moving though as the summer had baked it hard.

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    I also seriously needed to sort the sad shed out!

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    Last edited by clippo; 27-04-2019 at 12:08 PM.

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  5. #3
    rather than removing the shed I decided to renovate it as it's a nice size... about 11 x 9'. I'm by no means any good at DIY but I managed to fit a new coroline roof, sorted out the windows and gave her a lick of paint!

    Attachment 27557

    Now into late Summer 2018, I fitted the frame for some artificial turf using granodust as the base. I surrounded this with slate chippings.

    Attachment 27558

    The turf now in place!

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    Quick shot of my maples in autumn colour. I've got a little collection going, in pots, and have had 3 of these for a good 10-15 years.

    Attachment 27560

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  7. #4
    I always envisaged having a covered pergola and the rear patio, once cleaned of debris is a good size at approx. 3m x 6m. I bought the timber and set to work. Oh you might notice the mound of earth has disappeared from the right hand section of lawn... I skipped that during the summer. A pinched sciatic nerve that lasted the year didn't make things easy.

    Attachment 27561

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    The pergola is getting near completion now. I added screening along the back, installed polycarbonate roof panels and put furniture in. You might notice the shadow in the front left which is from a trampoline which is on the main lawn. For this summer I've just put some simple veg beds on the pond site as these should be easy to remove when the time comes.

    pic2.jpg

    I decided to rip out the Ivy hedge last weekend and new fence panels are about to go in. Getting rid of it gave me another couple of feet of garden to play with!

    pic 3.jpg

    That bring us up to the current date and I'll talk about my pond plans next.
    Last edited by clippo; 27-04-2019 at 12:14 PM.

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  9. #5
    If you've read the thread so far you might remember that I am planning to put my pond on the site occupied by the 3 veg beds you can see in the images above (on the right side of the garden). The plot gives enough space for a 4mx2m pond and I'm going to go for a semi raised... digging down about a foot and building up about 3 feet. I'm leaning towards doing a concrete collar as a base for blocks for the walls, and then just digging out and lining the below ground bit. I want a bottom drain and this will come up near the far right front support of the pergola. For filtration i'm probably going to go for a multibay which will be either behind the chair on the right of the pergola, or it could go behind the pergola on the right. As said, I'm not aiming to keep koi in this pond so I'm hoping this will be up to the task. Actually, in addition to the filter, I'm going to have a trough on top of the rear wall of the pond (on the long side) which will house anoxic baskets and some plants for nutrient export. The outflow from the filter will come up through the bottom of this trough and water will cascade into the pond via a water blade. I also want a surface skimmer in one corner plus one or two submerged outlets for flow. I'm aiming to have infinity style windows on all but the rear sides. I'm thinking of using a box welded liner at this stage. I'd like to build another pergola similar to the existing one over the pond eventually, although ti will be a little lower. I'm aiming to harvest rainwater for top-up indeed I have a 250l barrel behind the pergola in the rear right corner. I will be adding a sieve to filter water as it comes into the barrel and plan to use oyster shells in the multibay to keep KH stable. I'd like to use rainwater for water changes also infact I might incorporate some kind of drain system whereby the main pond can slowly be drained to allow a slow water change from the rain water barrel. If the rainwater runs out it could be topped up with tap water which could be aged for a few days before the water change. I'd like some lillies in the pond and I'm going to have my vegetables all in pots down on the main patio (just in front of the low wall nearest to the camera) and aim to use waste water from the pond for irrigation. Here's a quick sketch-up diagram... this doesn't show everything obviously and the raised trough along the back probably won't be full length in reality. Gives you an idea though!

    screengrab2.jpg
    Last edited by clippo; 27-04-2019 at 12:13 PM.

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  11. #6
    This looks like it is going to be interesting. Love what you have done with the garden already. Keep us all posted.

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    All looking nice and neat Clippo, i like your pergola, the Poly carbonate roof panels how did you fasten / secure them between each frame ? Thanks Steve...

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  15. #8
    cheers! - regarding the roof panels, somewhat unconventionally I attached them up underneath the rafters. There are 3 large sheets, fastened up with about 25 coroline screws each. Seems to be working so far with no leaks but obviously if it snows I'll have to watch the weight on it. It does make me feel more confident about it withstanding wind though as it can't get lifted from underneath in the same way as if it was on top.

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  17. #9
    anyone recommend an external pump for this system?

    I'm planning for it to be gravity-fed (now thinking Eazypod rather than multibay) from a 4" bottom drain.

    Would it be feasible to have the in-wall skimmer line in say, 2" pressure pipe, teed into the 4" BD line and controlled/balanced with 2" ball valve before the T?

    I'm thinking, to purge the BD i could just close the skimmer ball valve and the slide valve at the pod, let the pump run for a while to build up some 'head' and then open the slide? (with filter waste open/outlet closed of course), then reopen the skimmer ball valve as the final step?

    After the pump, the outlet pipe would split in 2 using 1.5"? pipe. 1 outlet would go to a nozzle about half way down one wall of the main pond and the other would go up into the base of an approx 300 litre trough which will be sitting on the back wall of the pond. Inside the trough it will be T'd and a spray bar. There would be back-check valve under the trough and a ball valve to control flow. Water will percolate up through the trough (which will house either anoxic baskets or some kind of gravel/ceramic for a bog filter/aquaponics bed), then spill over at a height of about 35cm above the pond surface... makes head above pump about 1 metre I think. Volume of pond is about 10,000 litres including the header trough.

    I'd like to use a spillway about 30cm wide.

    I've seen mention of using JECOD (Jebao) pumps which I am familiar with from my reef... are such pumps resilient to outdoor use though, or do they need to be enclosed somehow?
    Last edited by clippo; 09-05-2019 at 05:58 PM.

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  19. #10
    any thoughts on my plumbing plan peeps?

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  21. #11
    Bin off the eazy pod idea and put a sieve in with 2 inlets.
    Run the BD and skimmer line separately . Will be much less hassle in the long run.
    Draw a picture of what you’re planning, photograph then pop it up.
    A picture paints a thousand words and all that


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  23. #12
    hopefully not too far off starting this in the coming months.and I've been thinking about filtration quite a bit.

    My overall plan for this pond is to one day house several koi to a large size (the pond part of the system will be around 6000l in size). However, that is some way in the future. To start with I am aiming to keep a selection of common pond fish and gradually upgrade as money allows. To this end I am thinking of starting off with a DIY or second hand vortex filter which would then feed into a second hand Eazypod (ultimately I'd aim to replace the vortex with a sieve). The system is going to be gravity fed by the way... does anyone think using a 3" bottom drain pipe would be acceptable for a system of this size? After the Easypod I'll have a pump (around 10,000lph controllable DC) then a UV (thinking 30watts). After this the return line would split with one branch returning to the pond through a wall (and fitted with a directionable outlet, to get some circular flow motion going), and the other will go into a large trough along the top of the rear wall of the pond which will house some kind of media with plants... a bog filter basically. Water will cascade back into the centre rear of the pond from this trough via a water blade. As well as the BD, there will be a standard size skimmer in the rear corner at the end opposite the eyeball outlet and this will be Teed into the BD line (after the BD 'riser' section) with a ball valve to help balance the suction. The filtration will be around 4 metres away under the arbor and I'm hoping to put it all inside a lockable garden chest of some kind. I need to sort electrics and this would also be in the cabinet... a 4 or 6 gang waterproof outlet probably. Id like to fit an auto top up also and I'm thinking tap water via a dechlorinator using a float valve in the skimmer box maybe... I'd fit a length of hose on the vortex drain and use this to water some plants nearby whereas the Eazypod drain would be routed to a manhole cover, probably using flexible pipe. I may well install an aerated BD but to start with I am hoping to have a water lilly. Does anyone know how this might work out with a BD though? There are no shelves in the pond which would be around 140cm deep. Is that too deep for a lilly? Another question.... I'd love to keep some japanese weather loach... has anyone tried this with a bottom drain though? i imagine worst case they'd end up in the vortex filter (which would have a cage over the outlet)... could they even prove useful for keeping the bottom drain clean?!

  24. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    I don't know that they survive the winters. They are pretty cool characters tho. I might try a couple...

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  26. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai RudeDogg1's Avatar
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    I had a weather loach in my old pond for years. He was in my tropical fish tank for years before that until he got picked on by the big fish. You don’t see them much. I’d imagine they will go down the bottom drain all the time

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  28. #15
    some small progress... this summer I just put 3 small veg beds on the intended pond plot. Also replaced the fence after pulling ll that ivy down (the paddling pool is for my daughter... not fish!)

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    Now that veg seems to be on the way out, I cleared it all last weekend, removed the frames and started digging the footing trench.

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  30. #16
    I'm aiming to lay some rebar in the trenches and use planks to get a nice flat edge on the inside. I'm also aiming to put some short lengths of 12mm rebar sticking straight up and will then drill holes into my bottom row of sleepers (250x125mm size) to match up. I might even try to get some of them right through all sleepers. The wall will be 3 sleepers high (75cm) and I'll be digging down about 60cm. Soil appears to be heavy clay so I'm just thinking of using sand or grano dust at the base so I can contour it to a shallow bowl, with the bottom drain in the middle. I'll line the walls right up to the rim with celotex or maybe marine ply? Then a box welded liner. Question... do box welded liners have the ability to stretch enough to cope with a slightly 'dished' base? Anyone know if B&Q or the like sell a premixed product that can be used for the footing?

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  32. #17
    Finished digging the footing now. Any tell me how much cement and aggregate I'll need (by weight) to mix up enough for 0.5m3 of concrete?

  33. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai GadgetBazza's Avatar
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    What you've done on the garden to start is really neat and tidy, nice job. Your fake turf looks like the grass in our garden design renders, pixel perfect!

    To answer a couple of your questions... For purging the bottom drain as you had described with a 2" skimmer and 3 or 4" BD into an EasyPod, basically, turn the pump off and close the outlet, close both BD and Skimmer valves to the pod, boil the pod with air to release the crap from the K1 media and then drain the pod to waste (or water barrel). Then open the BD valve for a big inrush of flow to purge the pipe and close it again. Let that run off to waste, then close the waste and open the BD/Skimmer valves again. Once the pod fills back up, open the outlet and turn the pump back on.

    This is exactly the setup I have on a QT tank (although with a shower running on it also). I'm kind of with BCC though on going with a sieve rather than the pod, but then it depends how much muck you're pond generates. I don't find my indoor QT too bad, but if you are relying on the pod for both mechanical and biological filtration it may be a bit much. That said, you are looking at the bog filter approach so might well be just fine, certainly will be a fairly compact filtration setup. You can pick EasyPods up second hand readily, so if you change your mind you can always get something else and move it on. It's only a matter of time before you start thinking about a drum setup!

    Like the pergola's, although, looking at your Sketchup drawing (I love a good plan!), would it be feasible to loose the leg on the pond pergola next to the pathway to keep it more open and attach it to the main pergola, maybe using a joist hanger? It might open the view up a little more from the top deck? Just a thought.

    Regarding concrete mix for the footing, if you're using ballast, I think it's 1.7 ton per cubic meter. I had a link somewhere.... Ahh here https://www.diydoctor.org.uk/tips/tipsconversions.htm then scroll down to weights of materials.

    For concrete mix, depends on strength, but this site suggests 1 part cement to 8 parts ballast for foundation strength... https://www.allmix.co.uk/much-ballas...-mix-concrete/

    Oh and lastly, for your sleepers, you don't need to get a single rod from the footing through all sleepers, if you put some rod from the footing into the bottom layer, you can still tie other layers together with shorter lengths of bar fitted through a smaller number of sleeper layers if that makes sense, you can stagger them along the length of the wall also. Lastly, I just purchased some nice sleepers for raised bedding in our garden from https://www.uksleepers.co.uk/product...ilway_Sleepers. They do a good selection of sleepers, in particular, the ones I have linked are rounded for effect and also tie together along the length to help prevent any twisting over the years (make sure you buy a flat top row if you get these). Delivery can be expensive depending on how far you are from them, but I bought 180 of them so it was worth it!

    Best of luck with the build and keep us posted.
    Last edited by GadgetBazza; 28-09-2019 at 01:56 AM.

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  35. #19
    cheers Bazza - yeah I'd like to open the front of the pergola over the pond a bit but that post by the left front of the pond has to stay for various reasons. I'd like to get rid of the one on the front right (on the sketchup plan) but I think it's already stretching it to have only 2 supports on a 4 metre run. Having said that, down the line I might consider cladding the entire outside of the L shaped structure so I can build an enclosed greenhouse 'of sorts' over the winter. In this case I think it will be useful to have those supports there as I wonder how resilient the panels would be to wind without a few good anchor points. I'm thinking of a kind of Japanese screen door effect for the panels on the front. I'd gradually remove the panels and store them behind my shed as the weather warms up in Spring. I could go out and enjoy my pond throughout the year if I did this. I think it's a few years down the line yet though... as is adding any koi!

    Cheers for the info on the mix. I should be obtaining the materials in the next few weeks as I'd like to get the footing laid before winter hits. Then in spring I can crack on with the next bits.

    Also thanks for the info on purging. Sounds logical to me although I was planning on having the ball valve on the BD line (as it was mentioned by someone that it was this line that may need restricting rather than the skimmer line). No great shakes to add a BV to the skimmer line though and I guess it does improve overall controllability.

    One thing that concerns me is the fact that this is a gravity fed system but the bog filter will be higher than the pond/filtration water level. I will have a one way valve just under the bog filter so it can't empty whn the pump goes off, but will this have a major impact on the pump performance? I was planning on having the pipework go up into the bottom of the bog filter 'trough' for neatness but wonder if there may be an issue with head pressure there... I could always just route the feed pipe up over the back of the torugh and down to the bottom and I guess that solves it?

    Regarding sleepers, I really want the 3m long ones at 250x125mm. I'd only need about 11 of them to get a 75cm high wall. 3m would also allow for the bottom row to be a single length whereas the 2.4m ones (that seem far more widely available) I'd have to have a join in the middle. I'm planning on using larch also if possible but as said, not easy to find (let alone in the local area). I am planning on using a long 10mm bit to drill right through the bottom row, then hammer in 10mm rebar lengths down into predrilled 6" holes in the collar. Then, as you say, pin the other tiers individually (but in a similar way).

    I'm going to do the usual CT1 onto the inside of the liner, then press glass onto this for the windows but I worry about supporting the windows on the bottom edge (without inducing folds which might cause leakage). Has anyone ever used liner off-cut strips and sealed these down the seams of the glass on the pond side? Seems to me this would provide a pretty inconspicuous secondary seal around the window.

    If I am just using Celotex or similar to line the inside of the pond before the liner, could I potentially have issues with roots damaging the liner? I have cut though a few roots while digging the colalr. Most of these are from the old Ivy headge that has no been removed but I do have some large leylandi several metres away. Would lining with marine grade ply be a better option?

    Anyone answer that question about the stretchability of box liner also? ie, if I ordered a box liner of say 4m x 2m x 1.4m but the base of the pond was dished down to 1.5m at the BD, would the liner stretch enough to accommodate this? Generally do you need to get a box liner exactly (to the cm), or is it Ok to get one a few cm smaller, so it expands out without any creases?

    Lots of questions i know sorry!

  36. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai GadgetBazza's Avatar
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    Fair enough on the pergola mate, you know the garden best!

    Re the purging, you can use a slide valve of you want to save a few quid and putting one on the skimmer will help in case you need to disconnect the filter and don't want to drain the pond down at all.

    For the bog filter return, you could put another two blades in (one either end and return via those? Alternatively, if that's over the top, you just need to keep the pumped return outlet higher than the bog filter, you could still put the pipe into the bottom of the bog, but you would need to put a stand pipe in it and bring it to surface and then probably put an elbow on it so that the water doesn't shoot in the air!

    The sleeper company I linked provides in multiple lengths, in fact, I think mine came in 3.6m's in the end as they didn't have enough 2.4's in stock. Pretty sure they had larch, as well as Douglas fir and oak (expensive) options.

    I don't see why the second layer of liner wouldn't work but make sure you seal those together also. I've never installed a window though, so I would wait for someone else to chime in here!

    I don't think Leylandi have large spreading roots (I'd check with Google though), so hopefully they aren't a problem.

    Not had a box liner before either, so cannot say if it would stretch as requested, it might depend on the material you are using. I've relined a swimming pool before and the liners are made slightly stretchy to help make sure that there are no folds when they are fitted. I'd speak to the supplier when you are ready, I'm sure they will confirm.

    Don't worry about the questions, it's what makes the forum useful / interesting!

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