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  1. #1

    10,000 gallon pond on a slope

    Hi all,

    New to the forum and been using for ideas for my new pond build. We have an area of garden that is pretty useless so always has it designated for a planted pond area as the rest of the garden is mainly lawn. I had kept marines previously in old houses and as all koi pond in the last house. Wanting to concentrate more on koi this time. The pond will be between 10,000 to 12,000 gallons depending on how deep I go to blend it into the slope. Looking to put a dramatic waterfall also coming down from the top of the hill into the pond. The filter house will be under the pergola which is dug out already and and has a concrete slab base. Footings are in and block work starts next week for pond and filter house. Blocks will be laid flat and the area which is more proud of the ground will be front faced with sleepers on there end.

    I am not going for a bottom drain, more a traditional pump as there is a great deal of leafs being dropped in Autumn, with a Bead filter and uv and a sepertate pump supplying the waterfall. Sure I will have lots of questions on the way.

    Jon


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  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Hello and welcome.

    I had a friend who built his pond on a slope and due to the way it was built the pond base broke in half
    Make sure your footings and base are strong enough to take the weight

    I would seriously reconsider and install a bottom drain.
    ideally you'd want to go bottom drain into a sieve then a pump into a bead filter
    Without a sieve your water pump will pump large bits of debris and algae into your bead filter but those wont come out when cleaning and back washing
    Later down the line you may get bacterial problems

    Where abouts are you and may be worth viewing a few pond before going further with your pond build to get some helpful advice.

    I'm in Dartford if your close by your more than welcome to come and see my set up
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  4. #3
    Hi,

    I am going for a liner on a sand bed as most of the ground is sand soil. I think a solid concrete base is risky and hence the pump and not drain. Yes I am concerned about the pressure against the wall from the ground but should have about 500mm of wall thickness and hopefully no more than 600mm out of the ground. The footings are 12"deep minimum. I am in Bedfordshire so not too far away. Would be good to have a chat.

    Thanks

    Jon

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Are you going to The Young Koi Show at Detling Hill Maidstone next month
    You'll find plenty of people there to give you advice
    I'll be there too
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  8. #5
    I will be now, thanks for letting me know.

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  10. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    It's on Saturday 11th and Sunday 12th May.
    A great indoor venue so come along whatever the weather
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  12. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Please listen to Andy and put a bottom drain in, it'll be better than a submerged pump to take leaves away.

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  14. #8
    I had a liner with a retro fit bottom drain and it was a pain and I always wished I’d put a drain in!

    I also had lots of trees so ended up with a roof and skimmers but never completely sorted it out

  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Ajm's Avatar
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    One of my biggest regrets was not putting a bottom drain in . Now that lession is learnt am at some point taking my liner out to fit a bd and refit liner

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Ajm; 15-04-2019 at 06:38 PM.
    Johnathan

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  17. #10
    wow,massive pond!.
    You will need much more filtration than a bead filter for 10k gallons...unless your not having any fish ,lol
    Id be looking at a couple of big bio chambers or maybe one huge one built into the ground made of blocks, and 2 big showers I reckon, seeing as you want a waterfall at one end maybe that could be made into a shower, or a shower incorporated somehow.
    If you dont install bottom drains you will have muck settled all over the bottom in no time which your pump wont remove, and if it gathers undisturbed for any time it will breed bad bacteria, which becomes a very real threat to your koi, you can install bottom drains when using a liner, I wouldnt worry about the leaves the skimmer should get them.
    Also bottom drains mean no pumps or pipes in the pond which looks nicer, but more importantly koi will flash against them and injure themselves, you want as little in the pond as possible.
    Koi are quite difficult to keep, so getting the basics right will save you many head aches in the long run.

  18. #11
    Thanks for all the advice. I will investigate the bottom drain. Any advice greatfull received. I was looking to plant the pond which I have been told large koi will destroy, so was going for smaller fish and a lower volume of them. Being planted I will naturally encourage wildlife which I didn't want going down the bottom drain..... Is this the case?

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  20. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    An Aquadyne 4.4c can handle a 12000 gallon pond, as would an Ultrabead 100

    And as luck would have it....I have both of these bead filters for sale
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

  21. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Never had wildlife going down my bottom drain but you do hear of it from time to time.

    Normally wildlife that has gone through the BD can be found swimming around in the filter so if it did happen you'd have fish them out once in a while.

    Wildlife that goes through a pump gets blended / turned into a smoothie so the bottom drain is still the favoured option.

    Also on 10k gallons if keeping Koi you probably want 3 or 4 bottom drains (4" / 110mm pipe) to do the job properly, but it definitely beats having to clean out 3 or 4 pumps blocked with debris and pipes all over the place.

    Bottom drains save you their cost in reduced labour over the first year (based on charging "yourself" an hourly rate), after that they pay for themselves over and over through reduced electricity use as pumping up and over the pond uses far more energy than pumping down hill back to the pond.

    Check out some of the build threads on here... .loads of great inspiration.

    Bottom drains are easy to fit, even when using a liner as I have. The worst part of fitting them through a liner is fear of messing it up, but the actual fitment is straight forward.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 15-04-2019 at 09:12 PM.

  22. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1671 View Post
    An Aquadyne 4.4c can handle a 12000 gallon pond, as would an Ultrabead 100

    And as luck would have it....I have both of these bead filters for sale

    I struggle to believe that regardless of what the advertisements say, Adam had a big bead, a nexus 320 and a double bakki shower full of bhm , and it was struggling with 7500 gallons.

  23. #15
    Hi all. Just reading another thread, my filtration is going to be housed under the purgola, so the water level in the filters will be lower than the pond level. Is my only option a pump fed bead filter as it seems a bottom drain will not work?

  24. #16
    Presumably youve read these two?
    Both contain information that could be relevant to your build.

    If your filters are lower than your water level then you need some kind of fully enclosed system else itll overflow.
    Its not something Id personally consider. If I had the space you have (and wanted vegetation) then Id 100% be looking at a separate anoxic solution fed via a drum...a flipping big one. Fish in one pond, plants etc in the other.
    Also, at 10k gallons Id agree you want a minimum of 3 bottom drains to achieve a reasonable turnover, in fact, Id probably put in 4 to be on the safe side depending on the shape. And a couple of skimmers.
    Go large or go home (garden space and depth of pockets notwithstanding).



    Pond Construction and Pond Build Diaries
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...&share_type=sf

    New pond construction in progress, really appreciate feedback
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...1&share_type=t




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #17
    Done lots if reading today and watching build videos and used your suggestions to come up with the following:

    2 air fed sump drains and wall skimmer feeding a sieve which will have to be housed in the ground away from my pump house to be level with the pond water. Then pumped to a bead filer (due to it being housed under water level will need to be bead) through uv and back to pond. I was going to use the water return on the water fall, but the head height is about 3 meters so don't think that's a good idea. At what level and how do you generally return the water ?, also, I am not creating a concrete floor slab as I am using a liner, is this OK for the sump drains ?

    Couple of pics of the progress over past 2 days. Hopefully blockwork will be done tomorrow !!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  27. #18
    I dont think theres any set rule for heights of returns. Mine for example are about mid height. Some have high level and mid. Theres an argument for having them lower to keep the rubbish off the bottom. On a pond that size I doubt whether 1 or 2 returns would have much effect wherever theyre put so Id be looking to put them somewhere that minimises any bends that might limit your flow rate.
    Id probably bed the bottom drains in some concrete, you dont want them moving.


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  28. #19
    I know your ponds big but seeing as its round on one end, if you position your returns through the wall strategically you will get a flow circulating around the pond, which will be handy for keeping the floor cleaner, and if you position a skimmer at the other end of the flow so to speak, it will again encourage the flow around the pond. You just want to avoid any dead spots where the water doesnt move.

  29. #20
    Yes my thought was to fit these in the picture which are angled to push the outlet water around the pond at a lower level closest to the pump toward the radius end, two going in either direction, with the skimmer at the radius end
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