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  1. #1
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    New House - New Pond Build

    Morning All,

    First time posting on the forum but I've been reading for over a year now as a guest.

    I have recently moved house and have brought the Koi from the old pond and they are currently living in a swimming pool with a pond liner in it.

    I have dug a 2.4m (l) x 2.0m (w) x 0.8m (d) hole for the new pond and the hole is slowly filling with water which is drain off from the surrounding gardens. I have a flood pump in the hole currently which is removing the water to a drain.

    I want to install a bottom drain and the pond will be made using a liner and then raised above the ground by 0.6m using sleepers.

    My question is, how do you create a base to install the bottom drain as the soil in the hole currently is water logged and your leg can disappear into it if you jump in?

    Have I gone too deep?

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Alex.



  2. #2
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    Hi Alex,

    Is the hole filling from the top or the bottom? As in is water from the normal ground level running down into the hole where we've had so much rain recently or is it seeping in through the side or the bottom of the hole?

    If it's filling from above then you will have to wait for things to dry out and then pump it out but if it's coming in through the bottom or sides then you may be below the water table and as a result you may need to back fill a bit to get above it? May need some advice from a builder or similar on that option?

  3. #3
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply, yes the water seems to be seeping in through the sides of the pond and must also be rising from the base.....

    I'm thinking i'll order some sub base gravel and put this into the pond to help bring the base above the water table and see what happens then, I can see a clear line in the soil where the clay layer ends and the normal soil begins.

    One other question is has anyone installed a bottom drain like the pond digger ( Pouring Concrete support for Koi Ponds Bottom Drain - Part 19 ). I'm wanting to do the same and after some feedback / advice.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Check the Pond Build section of the forum, pretty much everyone has a bottom drain so you'll get loads of ideas.

    My first build was far from perfect, but its got everything you've referred to... Sleepers, bottom drain etc etc

    https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-constru...ond-build.html

    Some people who go below the water table just wait for the weather to warm up, then quickly build it after the water has gone. I don't know if this leads to any problems later on, but never seen anyone mention problems. Mine had an inch or so in the bottom when I first dug it (February), but it dried up by itself during a warm spell in March or April and I just got on with the job. Never had any problems.

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  6. #5
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    I'm sure there are some builders on here that will be able to help as you don't want the water to start coming back up again and pushing walls in or possibly even lifting the base if you get a dry period followed by a very wet one as you know what our summers are like. I've got a feeling either Dudley or Dylan are builders so may be worth asking one of them? There is a thread on here called Big carp chaser finally gets his bum in gear. He had a problem with his pond totally unrelated to your possible problem and one of the members who is a builder was replying to his thread so maybe worth a look and ask the question on there?

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  8. #6
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    I really appreciate the replies its a great help.

    I've had a look through some of the building sections and most people seem to be concreting the entire bottom section of the pond around the bottom drain.

    I was wanting to just encase the area around bottom drain to hold it in place and leave the rest compacted soil and then put my liner on top, that's why I'm concerned about the excess water in the hole in case it tries to lift the liner up.
    Last edited by afabian; 20-03-2019 at 07:54 AM.

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  10. #7
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Check the Pond Build section of the forum, pretty much everyone has a bottom drain so you'll get loads of ideas.

    My first build was far from perfect, but its got everything you've referred to... Sleepers, bottom drain etc etc

    https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-constru...ond-build.html

    Some people who go below the water table just wait for the weather to warm up, then quickly build it after the water has gone. I don't know if this leads to any problems later on, but never seen anyone mention problems. Mine had an inch or so in the bottom when I first dug it (February), but it dried up by itself during a warm spell in March or April and I just got on with the job. Never had any problems.

    I've had a read through your post and it is pretty much what I am aiming for. I'll post some pics tomorrow so you guys can see where i'm at currently.

    I take it you've only encased the drain and the pipe and left the remainder of the bottom soil?

  11. #8
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    My way of thinking about it is if you only encase the bottom drain in concrete and rely on the water to keep the liner down you may get a build up of ground level water building up under the liner trying to push the liner back up where as if you have the entire base of the pond made from a 6" slab of concrete that on it's own will weigh a hell of a lot and with the liner sitting on top of it will be much less likely to be a problem with any ground level water being able to push anything back up again.

    The only bit I would look to get a second or third professional opinion on would be if you are try to build from below the water table.

    I may be wrong here but I'm working on the theory that if you have got a large bucket and a small bucket and you fill the small bucket full of water then sit it in the large bucket it will happily sit on the bottom of the large bucket but if you start to fill the large bucket as long as the small bucket doesn't loose any water it will stay put but as soon as you start to loose water from the small bucket it will start to be lifted by the water in the large bucket. Loosing water in the small bucket is when you do filter cleans or partial water changes.

    Hopefully I am trying to save you time and money here. The way I see it is - it's far better to ask the questions as early as possible and hope the right people can answer them for you that work by trial and error. Trial and error is a good way to learn but can be a very expensive way to learn too.

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    I'm all for saving money and getting it right 1st time.

    I have ordered a tonne bag of sub base which i'm planning on putting into the hole I've dug which will fill the section below the water table and give me a solid base to work from with a bit of luck.

    Once the sub base is in the hole i'm going to monitor it for a week or so and see if any water rises through and then set to work installing the bottom drain.

    I'll post some pics this afternoon which will hopefully give a clearer picture of what my plan is....

    Pond volume will be around 7,200L
    Filter is a Eazy Pod gravity fed

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    Nice one Alex, be good to see some photos as all build threads need photos

    Good luck

  16. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    This is the thread I mentioned earlier and it is Dudley that's a builder so do yourself a massive favour and PM him and ask what he would do in your situation.

    https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-constru...-bum-gear.html

    The problem begins about 3/4 of the way through the thread I think.

  17. #12
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    I have messaged Bigcarpchaser and hopefully he can pass on some of his wisdom.

  18. #13
    Afternoon Girls
    Well, I probably won’t be too much help as my problems weren’t groundwater related.
    I’d probably try digging a deeper hole adjacent to your pond and seeing if you can pump away the groundwater but if the water table is high then you’d be fighting a losing battle.
    Concrete sets ok underwater though I think..maybe...errr perhaps I dreamed that?
    Potential pitfall I can think of would be groundwater washing away anything that isn’t solid so any base you put in wound want to be pretty sturdy.
    There’s bound to be someone on here that’s faced a similar problem, it’s not uncommon.
    Before anyone asks...mission pond reconstruction should be commencing this week wwhoooo.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  20. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by afabian View Post
    I have messaged Bigcarpchaser and hopefully he can pass on some of his wisdom.
    Dudley is the one you want to PM as he's a builder.

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  22. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Afternoon Girls
    Well, I probably won’t be too much help as my problems weren’t groundwater related.
    I’d probably try digging a deeper hole adjacent to your pond and seeing if you can pump away the groundwater but if the water table is high then you’d be fighting a losing battle.
    Concrete sets ok underwater though I think..maybe...errr perhaps I dreamed that?
    Potential pitfall I can think of would be groundwater washing away anything that isn’t solid so any base you put in wound want to be pretty sturdy.
    There’s bound to be someone on here that’s faced a similar problem, it’s not uncommon.
    Before anyone asks...mission pond reconstruction should be commencing this week wwhoooo.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Good to hear you're still alive and kicking Mr Big

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  24. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Afternoon Girls
    Well, I probably won’t be too much help as my problems weren’t groundwater related.
    I’d probably try digging a deeper hole adjacent to your pond and seeing if you can pump away the groundwater but if the water table is high then you’d be fighting a losing battle.
    Concrete sets ok underwater though I think..maybe...errr perhaps I dreamed that?
    Potential pitfall I can think of would be groundwater washing away anything that isn’t solid so any base you put in wound want to be pretty sturdy.
    There’s bound to be someone on here that’s faced a similar problem, it’s not uncommon.
    Before anyone asks...mission pond reconstruction should be commencing this week wwhoooo.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thought you had gave up!!! New House - New Pond Build

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

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  26. #17
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    What i'm dealing with currently..........

    IMG_6598.jpg

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    After throwing some of the soil back in to raise the base to the water level in the clay

    IMG_6600.jpg

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  30. #19
    Junior Member Rank = Fry afabian's Avatar
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    Showing the clay v soil line, water seeping through the clay

    IMG_6599.jpg

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  32. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffyrat View Post
    Thought you had gave up!!! New House - New Pond Build

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
    Didn't you know his nick name is Boomerang Bigcarp as he always comes back Fred

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