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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    You made me laugh about the madras sauce.
    Years ago folk used filter bays and some successfully use them today but they are very time consuming and soon become a chore.
    Then came the likes of the nexus,beads and pressure filters etc.
    These are good filters but then came the drum filter.
    They are awesome at keeping your pond clear and clean and to be honest I havnt had any koi Ill or any problems.
    The Aem is probably the cheapest at under 1k and comes with a UV.
    There are loads out there all different prices.

    As for returns,I have two underwater returns one near the bottom and one around 1/2 way down,but I prefer surface ones ie a blade,waterfall or shower.
    A big fan of showers and I made my own very cheap and easy to do.
    What part of the country are you?
    Maybe visit someones set up or a koi outlet.
    These are my opinions but some use different and would say they work.
    I only use mid and bottom returns in winter but keep them open slightly on a valve,and I would say be them expensive I would valve everything so you have control on that particular flow.
    We are all here to help Carl so any questions,no such thing as a stupid one.
    what drum set up are you utilising if i may ask? on what size/gallon pond ?

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  3. #22
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi Carl,I have a 3000gal pond and use a Draco solum 25 drum.
    Not saying it is the best out there,but I bought it as Tony who makes them is only 5 MLS from me so handy if I ever had problems.
    Was going to go for the Aem but decided to pay Tony a visit at his factory and was very impressed and came away with a very good deal.
    One outlet goes to a bio unit and the other goes to a shower using two pumps one being a variable which I would recommend.
    Hope it helps a bit Carl.
    John

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  5. #23
    i will have to get my skates on to be honest in regards sorting out where i want to put returns as the right hand side will be fully on view so do not want to put any pipework that side .
    What would be your recommendations on the return side did and height in the pond ??????

    my bricklayer for my house extension is starting tomorrow, so will have to let him have the mixer so he can get me upto slab level so i can pour that next week, so all my time will be prepping the base up to concrete level.
    i have made a start today on the blocks and my back and knees are paying the price now .
    i forgot how awkward blocks are at floor level, its a case of on your knees most the way up until about 5/6 course

    IMG_0068.jpg

    once again thanks for looking in and i could really do with some help on where and what size and at what height my returns should be in the pond

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  7. #24
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Your not hanging about Carl.
    You say the view side is on the right,so I would put the returns on the back as onto the fence,you could have your blade on there and an u underwater return near the bottom.
    I am not a big fan of underwater returns and a lot will disagree with me but I like returns on the surface to oxygenate and maybe one underneath for winter.
    I used to have a venturi till I got a shower,that is a surface return and very useful for oxygen.
    I am maybe a bit odd Carl but I don't like windows and I don't like air in the pond like a jacuzzi,everyone to their own so I can only advise as I would do it.
    I like the splash return and a very gentle swirl circular movement and my koi seem to be happy in it but others like heavy air.
    So your returns are a personal thing as to what you want Carl.
    John

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  9. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlcwc View Post
    i will have to get my skates on to be honest in regards sorting out where i want to put returns as the right hand side will be fully on view so do not want to put any pipework that side .
    What would be your recommendations on the return side did and height in the pond ??????
    My pond is a little like yours, I have 3 walls that are seen, well the top 800mm is, all I did was to put the returns at finished floor level and one on the back wall was a higher one, I have 3 returns in the water, two mid level and one high level, I also have a Bakki shower on a separate pump.

    Starting to take shape now, looking good
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Your not hanging about Carl.
    You say the view side is on the right,so I would put the returns on the back as onto the fence,you could have your blade on there and an u underwater return near the bottom.
    I am not a big fan of underwater returns and a lot will disagree with me but I like returns on the surface to oxygenate and maybe one underneath for winter.
    I used to have a venturi till I got a shower,that is a surface return and very useful for oxygen.
    I am maybe a bit odd Carl but I don't like windows and I don't like air in the pond like a jacuzzi,everyone to their own so I can only advise as I would do it.
    I like the splash return and a very gentle swirl circular movement and my koi seem to be happy in it but others like heavy air.
    So your returns are a personal thing as to what you want Carl.
    what size pipe should i use as a return ?
    i think i have a small length of pressure pipe left over from the bottom drain i could use to set these in the wall ?
    i will use a full block replacement skimmer on the far wall that faces the house.
    would it be a fair decision to put 2 returns to the pond at mid/low level or thereabouts at the rear wall that the skimmer is on and then mount a blade on the left of the pond nearest the fence?
    your help greatly appreciated

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  13. #27
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    2ins return would be fine.
    Not too sure which wall is facing your house Carl.
    Is the wall nearest the fence for the skimmer and returns?
    John

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  15. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    My pond is a little like yours, I have 3 walls that are seen, well the top 800mm is, all I did was to put the returns at finished floor level and one on the back wall was a higher one, I have 3 returns in the water, two mid level and one high level, I also have a Bakki shower on a separate pump.

    Starting to take shape now, looking good
    Thanks buddy much appreciated ,
    i have 2 walls that are on view , it being the facing wall and the right side , and the right side which will be where the hot tub will sit on the same view and lead to some steps that go to the new driveway area.
    i will setup a picture tomorrow to show how it will hopefully look to aid in the query.
    took some doing tbf ,getting it symmetry correct was the hardest part as the ground runs away so fast , from the front to the rear it runs away 1.5mt and the plot is on the piss regards boundaries , was a real headache tbf.
    i laid and relaid the first course twice before it looked and measured somewhere right, tbh its 75mm on the piss regards metres from house squared but i can live with that, and gives me the biggest size i can get which is why i used engineering bricks to alter the size.
    i originally made it to the full block but it did not work out so i will deal with what i have.

  16. #29
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Just looked back at your photos and yes I would have the blade facing the house on a long wall and two returns on the short wall one above another by the fence towards a corner but not exactly in it to create a circular movement in the pond which eliminates dead spots.
    John

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  18. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Your not hanging about Carl.
    You say the view side is on the right,so I would put the returns on the back as onto the fence,you could have your blade on there and an u underwater return near the bottom.
    I am not a big fan of underwater returns and a lot will disagree with me but I like returns on the surface to oxygenate and maybe one underneath for winter.
    I used to have a venturi till I got a shower,that is a surface return and very useful for oxygen.
    I am maybe a bit odd Carl but I don't like windows and I don't like air in the pond like a jacuzzi,everyone to their own so I can only advise as I would do it.
    I like the splash return and a very gentle swirl circular movement and my koi seem to be happy in it but others like heavy air.
    So your returns are a personal thing as to what you want Carl.
    i will have to do a mock up of how i envision it looking from the house outwards , to see what i need to do, i cannot have any pipes on show on the right hand side as this will be a walkway to the rest to the garden so i am limited to the back of the pond and the left side which is next to the new fence.

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  20. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    can t you bury all the pipework in the ground. to where ever your filter pump place is going to be. also my returns are about 2 feet of the bottom of the pond. to keep the water moving for the bottom for bottom drain.
    my pond is round not square. so don t have a problem with dead spots. people also put chaffers in the corners to stop dead spots. on a square pond. hope this helps.
    looking good mate.

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  22. #32
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    That's what I meant by having the returns by the fence so they would be out of site Carl as like you say you don't want to see any pipes.
    I would have thought the filter would be on the back wall so you have to think if you want a filter house or in ground pit.
    John

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  24. #33
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    This should give you an idea on where my returns are, my boundries also narrow in to the bottom of teh garden, the plot is 6 times wider at the front to the back.

    2 high level returns and 2 mid level returns


    The mid level returns are just under the finished floor level so they will be covered by the slabs once complete


    The two mid level returns are about 22 inch from the pond floor, not what I wanted but its what I had to work with


    I did have a layout drawing but I cant seem to find it, i'll take a look later to see if I can dig it out

    Defiantly go with 2" returns, when the fibreglass goes on it will have to go inside the pipe, so this will cause a slight restriction, so bigger is better
    Last edited by RoyLittle0; 23-02-2019 at 09:59 AM.
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  26. #34
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Found it, I might give you some ideas, I did modify it slightly from the drawing but its basically the same


    The window wall faces the house and the wall with the Bakki shower on is against my boundary fence, the Bakki shower has moved up towards the corner, there is only one dead spot and its by the bottom left corner, I get leaves collecting in the corner, which is ok as its next to the house so I can get them out every time I walk out the back door
    Last edited by RoyLittle0; 23-02-2019 at 09:58 AM.
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  28. #35
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Nice one Roy I'm sure it will help Carl a lot.
    John

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  30. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    can t you bury all the pipework in the ground. to where ever your filter pump place is going to be. also my returns are about 2 feet of the bottom of the pond. to keep the water moving for the bottom for bottom drain.
    my pond is round not square. so don t have a problem with dead spots. people also put chaffers in the corners to stop dead spots. on a square pond. hope this helps.
    looking good mate.
    i can get away with putting 1 on the left wall and one on the back wall of the pond i think, i will knock up a draft idea for you kind people to have a look at if you would .
    Thanks for looking in

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  32. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    That's what I meant by having the returns by the fence so they would be out of site Carl as like you say you don't want to see any pipes.
    I would have thought the filter would be on the back wall so you have to think if you want a filter house or in ground pit.
    yes m8 the filter will be on the back behind the pond itself.
    Thanks for looking in

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  34. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    This should give you an idea on where my returns are, my boundries also narrow in to the bottom of teh garden, the plot is 6 times wider at the front to the back.

    2 high level returns and 2 mid level returns


    The mid level returns are just under the finished floor level so they will be covered by the slabs once complete


    The two mid level returns are about 22 inch from the pond floor, not what I wanted but its what I had to work with


    I did have a layout drawing but I cant seem to find it, i'll take a look later to see if I can dig it out

    Defiantly go with 2" returns, when the fibreglass goes on it will have to go inside the pipe, so this will cause a slight restriction, so bigger is better
    Looks a really well thought out pond m8, i will have to have a read through your build diary if you have one
    Thanks for looking in

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  36. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    Found it, I might give you some ideas, I did modify it slightly from the drawing but its basically the same


    The window wall faces the house and the wall with the Bakki shower on is against my boundary fence, the Bakki shower has moved up towards the corner, there is only one dead spot and its by the bottom left corner, I get leaves collecting in the corner, which is ok as its next to the house so I can get them out every time I walk out the back door
    Thank you m8 , this is very helpful , seeing how to move the water round underneath .

    i like the idea of a drum and a bake filter but holy cow them bakki filters are 1200+ for a bit of stainless and some bhm media .i don't know if i could envision being happy looking at a bakki above pond level as i wanted a clean look at it albeit the stainless blade on the long back wall which i thought would be quite aesthetically pleasing, do they do a bhm filter i can put in the room where i will put a drum ?

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  38. #40
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    I made my bakki shower very cheaply and did a thread on here,I agree they are not really nice to look at and I am moving mine into the garage close by so out of site,so they can be hidden.
    The shower is a very good filter you should consider one Carl,maybe run the blade from it.
    John

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