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  1. #1

    New Pond any advice please

    Hi

    I'm new to the forum and i'm looking at building my first pond in over 20 years. I had to give up last time as we moved house and then the family came along. well you wouldn't believe how much i'm looking forward to starting this project.

    I looking at building a 4000 liter pond. it will be made up of sleepers above ground approx 600mm high and ill dig 500mm below ground level. I'm looking to use a liner. So by my calculations it will be 3 x sleeper high as they are 200mm x 100mm. I'm also looking at putting an infinity window along one site which will be 1400mm x 500mm (however i'm going to lose some of the window as I understand it ill need 100mm either side to seal to the liner using fish approved mastic. the internal measurements for the pond will be 2.2m length x 2m width x 1m high

    So question 1 - will i need to put a concrete base under the sleepers. will they need to be bolted to the ground. One of the sleepers where the window is going will be up against a old retaining wall that stops at ground level.

    question 2 - will metal brackets on the inside on the pond be enough to hold the sleepers together or is it best to bolt them from above.

    question. 3 - when i seal the liner to the glass is it best done with the liner on the outside of the window or the inside.

    question 4 - I was planning on putting the window on a shelf and putting a polystyrene strip where it will push against the sleepers or would it be best up letting the glass push up directly on the wood. I was going to hold the window in place with the water pressure so wasn't planning on cutting out a frame..

    Question 5 - will one railway sleeper on the infinity side be strong enough as the two sleepers above this will be cut for the window.

    question 6 - I've been told two different things about the glass. one supplier said ill need 21.5mm thick tempered glass and other said 13.5mm. Any ideas which is correct.

    Last question which i probably know the answer too. Would you put an extra layer of sleepers in raising the height above ground to 800mm and increase the window to 700mm high.

    I'm sure i'll have more questions in the future.

    Thanks in advance


    Last edited by Warren spence; 24-07-2018 at 11:01 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    im soon to start a 6mx3m sleeper build 4ft deep but 3ft above and 1ft below with 3 windows,im putting a 1ft sq rebar reinforced ringbeam down for sleepers to sit on,1 of my windows will be 4ftx3ft infinity,im just using insulation in pond and leaving a 50mm gap round cutout for window to sit in,the liner will be against sleeper then glass siliconed to that,im not chancing putting sleepers 200mm up im laying mine widthways for strength and using rebar and sleeper screws to fasten together,ive been told to do 2 pieces of rebar 10/12mm thick at each end of a sleeper then 1 in the middle,ive seen a friends sleeper pond bow at the joints as he didnt fasten properly,he just used screw and they wouldnt hold it in place,if your going infinity i would go 25.5mm glass to be safe,1400mm is a wide piece of glass ,you dont want it bowing,andi

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    hi and welcome mate

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  7. #4
    Thanks I'll amend my design cheers andikoi. Hi freddyboy
    Last edited by Warren spence; 26-07-2018 at 07:33 AM.

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Hi mate i aint got a clue about sleeper ponds. Andi knows his stuff .
    So your in good hands there. On the help and ideas front. Lots of photos on the build mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren spence View Post
    Thanks I'll amend my design cheers andikoi. Hi freddyboy
    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Hi mate i aint got a clue about sleeper ponds. Andi knows his stuff .
    So your in good hands there. On the help and ideas front. Lots of photos on the build mate.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    cheers fred,first time anyones said i know my stuff hahaha,andi

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  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    cheers fred,first time anyones said i know my stuff hahaha,andi
    My new plan

    sleepers are still the same 2.4m x 200 x 100. I’m going to put 100mm angle on each corner cemented in to the ground on the inside. The sleepers will be 3 high. Down each length I’m going to put 2 x 100mm x 5mm metal bar on the inside and screw this the each sleepers as with the angle pieces in the corner, this will also be concrete into the ground. I believe this will also help with strengthening the sleepers where the window is going.

    I will protect the liner from the steel work with either old carpet or polastyrene strips.

    andi do you think that will work.

    cheers
    Last edited by Warren spence; 27-07-2018 at 10:32 AM.

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  15. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    overkill mate,stagger your joints at the corners and put 2 pieces of 12mm rebar through each corner and 1 or 2 pieces either at 4ft for 1 or 2ft for 2,it wont go nowhere and rebar is about £7 for a 6m length from builders merchant, just cut it with an angle grinder,about £9 for a 450mm long 12mm wide arbour drill from toolstation,where your window is going put 2 lengths of bar each side ,1st a couple of inches back and another a few inches after that but not in a line,stagger them,probaly cost you £30 all together,if your really worried where window going then put a piece of angle each side of it,you can always cover this with wood to hide it,unless you recess it into sleeper,circular saw would do this easily,,andi

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  17. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    overkill mate,stagger your joints at the corners and put 2 pieces of 12mm rebar through each corner and 1 or 2 pieces either at 4ft for 1 or 2ft for 2,it wont go nowhere and rebar is about £7 for a 6m length from builders merchant, just cut it with an angle grinder,about £9 for a 450mm long 12mm wide arbour drill from toolstation,where your window is going put 2 lengths of bar each side ,1st a couple of inches back and another a few inches after that but not in a line,stagger them,probaly cost you £30 all together,if your really worried where window going then put a piece of angle each side of it,you can always cover this with wood to hide it,unless you recess it into sleeper,circular saw would do this easily,,andi
    Is it worth fitting a drain in the bottom on the liner for filtration or just use a pump sat on the bottom

    ta

  18. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    Yes bottom drain best thing you will do.andi

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  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    You won't regret fitting a bottom drain, best thing ever invented for koi ponds
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Agree with andi and roy. Bottom drain a must.
    What an invention. Also dry pumps and pipes outside of pond. The least things in the pond the better.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  24. #13
    For my size on pond do I need a 4inch bottom drain or would 3” be ok

  25. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    I think a 3" drain would be fine, although 4" is more common, the 3" will be a hell of a lot cheaper if you are using pressure pipe, if you are using soil pipe, which isn't the best but many people successfully use it, then 4" may be cheaper on the pipe, so you will have to cost it up and see what is the best option for you.
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  27. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    cost wise as said 4" is cheaper,i had 3" pipe originally on my 4"bd after advice from a koi guy,cost me a fortune in pipe compared to 4" pipe,just go 4" it will be easier and cheaper,andi

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  29. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    cost wise as said 4" is cheaper,i had 3" pipe originally on my 4"bd after advice from a koi guy,cost me a fortune in pipe compared to 4" pipe,just go 4" it will be easier and cheaper,andi
    Would you use pressure pipe andi? or normal drain pipe for this size pond
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  30. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    i recently wondered the same on costing for my new build,ive always used wickes plastic pipe for all my 1 1/2 stuff,didnt want to this time i wanted to do it right,i was scared of what pressure pipe was going to cost so asked chris at kitsu loi to price me up,i was shocked how little it was going to cost to use pressure,18m of 2" for all filters and 4 3m lengths of 4" for bd £200 bargain,so thats where it will be coming from,plus it will all be same colour,not black pipe and white joins like i had before haha,andi

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  32. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    cost wise as said 4" is cheaper,i had 3" pipe originally on my 4"bd after advice from a koi guy,cost me a fortune in pipe compared to 4" pipe,just go 4" it will be easier and cheaper,andi
    I called into kitsu koi this morning to Have a look around. Nice guy he was very helpful. I’ll be going back there for my stuff too.

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  34. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Hi and welcome to the forum.

    I think 4000 litres is a little on the small side if your going for Koi although it may just about suffice. My suggestion if you can't go bigger would be to go a little deeper than 1100mm. Even 1200mm (4 ft) would be better and would see a fair few hundred litres added to the overall volume.... If you could go deeper still even better.

    I've not long finished my own build which is 1.2m deep and 7000 litres. Bought 8 small Koi back in May and the largest has already grown 12cm and suddenly my pond looks a little on the small side for them. I'm going to extend it for next year but due to the bottom drain being concreted in I'm stuck at 1.2m and now wish I'd gone a little deeper to begin with.

    My pond build is also sleepers, you can probably tell its a DIY job but you are welcome to have a look at my build thread in case it does help in any way:

    https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-constru...ond-build.html

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  36. #20
    Hi

    Well this pond is taking ages. I hurt my back in November doing this pond so it's been a slow project. I've started back at it now so fingers crossed I'll get somewhere. When I started I had 3 helpers, that lasted one day now I'm on my own.

    I've taken 222 bags of dirt to the tip as I don't have room for a skip. You can get the idea from the pictures the size. However I'm a bit further on than the pictures show. I've installed threaded bar going threw the sleepers and I've concreted them down. The lower sleepers are now bolted down. I'll bolt each level as I go.

    I'll post a few more photos when I get chance.

    Thanks
    Attached Images Attached Images

 

 
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