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  1. #41
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slickbe View Post
    There will be adidtional 3-4 63mm angled (45 degrees) returns for pumps (20 m3/h). They will be powered up for a few hours a day to create vortex. With or without airlifts in the same time. I will have to test all the combinations. I have mentioned this in first post
    Hi, what you will find is that when you turn on the pumps and increase the flow the levels in the drum and filters will drop and the drum will llkely go into perpetual clean mode. The probe height in a drum is normally set for what is the normal flow rate and if you change the flow by much you need to adjust the probe height. You could mitigate this by running the probes low to cater for a peak flow situation but the kicker would be that in airlift only running the lifts would struggle even more.

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  3. #42
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I don't know what pumps you have in mind but variable speed pumps would be good - it could be very useful in setting the system up. It may be that after you get the vortex going at full power you would be able to turn the pumps right down and still keep your circulation going almost indefinitely.

    In order to get 20k flow in practice you will need go for something like the Vario 30000 pump but if you can afford it Blue eco 320's or 500's would be even better.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  5. #43
    I am aware of water level changes in drum filter when staring aditional pumps. Maybe the best way is to run traditional pumps when airlifts are off and vice versa - to maintain same water level in clean chamber.

    I have two Vario 20 000 pumps (Jecod and Aquaforte). Plan is to buy two more. I like to have option to change flow rates, so probably will stick to Vario pumps.

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  7. #44
    Going bigger each day. 4 layers of blocks acomplished. Saturday - beloved concrete

    20181115_155608.jpg

    20181115_155555.jpg

    I am thinking about insulation. Is there sense to put it in case where I will not cover pond either heating during winter time?

    I have got mainly two options in my mind:

    1) skip insulation, turn off all the filters / pumps, remove water from bio chamber and all the pipes, just leave aeration but on higher level then normal (0,5m) - to prevent mixing warmer water from the bottom

    2) make insulation (all walls 1m deep from the top, all pipes - so many of them, also filter chambers hut and chambers itself), leave only working bio chamber (without drum) but on 10-20% of capacity (water movement through airlift or regular pump - but this will definitely mix water in main pond), areation same as above

    What do you think guys?

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  9. #45
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I would be tempted to put some insulation in round the edge of the pond even if I then decode to turn everything off over winter.

    Most of us run our filters through the winter. I will in extreme weather turn off the bottom drain and only take water from the skimmer and only at a very low rate - just enough to turn the filters over and stop anything freezing. I also have a floating cover that covers about 3/4 of the pond plus a little emergency heat. I used to let the pond freeze though and didn't have many problems.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  11. #46
    i would normally say, add as much insulation as possible, but in your case because its so big i cant see any point, most of its under ground so that would insulate the sides anyway, but with such a big surface area thats completely irrelevant. It would be like having cavity wall insulation in your house but then leaving the roof completely off.

    It wont be possible to heat it, so what would you be insulating ?, I think it will be controlled almost completely by nature, you could possibly retain a degree or 2 with a decent cover to keep the wind chill off, but the size will make that a huge project in itself. I dont know how you could cover it, the normal wooden joists and poly carb sheets wont work, lol.

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  13. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai GadgetBazza's Avatar
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    Could you use the floating swimming pool cover (bubble wrap style) on a koi pond for something large like this?

  14. #48
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    have nothing on the pond surfice

  15. #49
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai GadgetBazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyTony View Post
    have nothing on the pond surfice
    Care to elaborate?

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  17. #50
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Much depends on aspirations Koi wise?

    Water temp stratification in relatively shallow ponds- I would do some wider research. Not sure any benefits in turning off the circulation are worth the risks when you start things up again.

    If you are not heating then take the benefit of the warm earth and don't insulate.
    Last edited by Davej; 15-11-2018 at 11:29 PM.

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  19. #51
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I think he is only talking of insulating the top meter of the pond so the part that will benefit from ground heating will still be exposed. I would never turn of filtration in my pond - it is just so important to have the filtration up and running in the spring.

    On a positive note I have measured over 3degrees of temperature gradient in a pond where the pumps are still running (slowly) and circulating water only in the top layer and never had issues with pipes freezing even though they are poorly insulated. I am in the south of England though not in Poland!

    One reason for going for the pond insulation is that it gives greater flexibility later - I wish I had insulation but retro fitting it on the pond would be a nightmare. Insulating the above ground pipework is something that could be done later.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  21. #52
    5th layer of blocks ready. Hope to put one more and pour concrete over it. And this will be probably end for this year, beacuse of the bad weather conditions.

    20181120_153319.jpg

    Regarding insulation I will peobably skip it completly or just insulate walls (1m from the grass level). Rest of the pond will not be insulated to gain natural heat from earth.

    It is to much effort to do it completly with pipes and gain only one ore two degree celcius. Better to buy some quality kois for the money.

    In winter time I will not be able to take water from skimmers like pip895 - they will freeze completly. Also I am thinking of lowering water level below skimmers, to avoid damaging them by ice. Do not have experience in this matter, maybe somene let theme to freeze completly? Any damage?

    To run at least bio filter during winter, I could take water only from BDs. But this will probably mix water to much causing heat loss.

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  23. #53
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    You would end up with new pond syndrome every year if you shut the filters down.

    Why not install a couple of very low down returns and control them with ball valves. You would need a little flow through them though all the time to stop the water going stagnant and building up with bad bacteria.



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  25. #54
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Didn’t twig it at first but is the pond in Poland?

    Just how cold does it get where you are and for how long?

    Do many folk local to you keep Koi?

    Dave

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  27. #55
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    With a variable pump or even a swap out smaller pump I think you would get away with using the bottom drain or at least one of them just to keep the water in the filter turning over gently. Some of the American forums have discussions about ponds that freeze over in winter - the key is supposedly to make sure there is somewhere where gas exchange can take place.

    How about a very slow turnover with a heater + thermostat set to 3 or 4 degrees returning via a low mid water return. This could keep things just turning over in a pond fully frozen over at the top. You would essentially just be topping up any heat lost by the filter and pipework - to keep costs down you would want to insulate both ideally. The ice + snow will form a very good insulating cover. If your filter has aeration then you may not need to have aeration in the pond itself.
    Last edited by pip895; 20-11-2018 at 08:08 PM.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  29. #56
    Davej, yes in Poland. Each year winters are different but with tendency to be less frosty. Nonetheless there can be week or more with temperatures much below 0 (up to -25).

    Voodo, Pip - thx! That sounds like a best plan

    So i have to put another return maybe something about 50cm above ground. In winter time, water will be collected by central BD, then transfered straight to BIO (bypassing drum). Here will be areation. From BIO water will be pumped back to the pond by vario pump. All pipes taking place in this process will be insulated. Maybe also put a little in-line heater, as Pip said - have to check running costs first.

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  31. #57
    6th layer with concrete ready

    20181125_145702.jpg

    Next 2 layers depend on weather conditions. There is a sight chance to finish them by the end of the year. Nonetheless I am happy with current result achieved this year.

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  33. #58
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slickbe View Post
    Davej, yes in Poland. Each year winters are different but with tendency to be less frosty. Nonetheless there can be week or more with temperatures much below 0 (up to -25).

    Voodo, Pip - thx! That sounds like a best plan

    So i have to put another return maybe something about 50cm above ground. In winter time, water will be collected by central BD, then transfered straight to BIO (bypassing drum). Here will be areation. From BIO water will be pumped back to the pond by vario pump. All pipes taking place in this process will be insulated. Maybe also put a little in-line heater, as Pip said - have to check running costs first.
    I dont agree with the bypass of the drum in the winter straight to the bio,it should go to the drum then the bio,the bio needs to be as clean as possible,ok slow it down a bit Slickbe.
    John

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  35. #59
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    New KOIPOND 90 m3

    This is sn awsome build and size New KOIPOND 90 m3 i love it. As for the BDs in the centre my guess is that if you could have put 1x 16 inch diameter pipe and BD in you would have New KOIPOND 90 m3 the 4x drains are mainly to get the flow you want to turn the pond over New KOIPOND 90 m3 i personally dont see a problem with how you have done it, the amount of flow you will potentially pull towards the centre with 4x BDs coupled with the gradient towards them will be easily enough to keep it clear. I wouldnt however try to achieve a vortex as such as this will not favour the fish. Carp are not fast flowing water fish really and prefer the calmer waters and lakes. Yes there will be water movement and currents of sorts but nothing like a whirlpool ha ha.
    Put the Domes on the BDs over steel grills too imo as they will not create the right kind of pull towards the centre (most flow will be drawn from directly above the drains and not from the sides New KOIPOND 90 m3 You have 1x airated bd so its not going to be a bubbling jacuzzi in a pond that size, more like a little fizzle haha so a decent size air pump on that will be fine and also help create a draw towards the drains.

    A Massive hats off to you from me buddy with this build as its probably every uk koi keepers dream to have something as big as this. The setting its in also looks truely stunning and i am massively envious of it ha ha ha

    Cant wait to see it finished New KOIPOND 90 m3


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    Its always a work in progress

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  37. #60
    Thx Lee!

    John, it will be hard to run drum below 0 degree celcius. At least spray nozzles will freeze. And how to run pump in that cold - it could damage it. I will have to run some tests when filter house will be ready. Maybe temperature there will be ok to run it without problems. But as I mentioned before, I do not plan to heat it at all.

    Second option is to run water through the drum but without any rinse pump and motor on. Third option - water to BIO through bypass with minimum flow.

    Weather forecast for next week looks suprisingly good - hope to put two more layers of blocks

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